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Thread: Jacob Patrick Sullivan - Pennsylvania

  1. #41
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    Sara Packer: 'I got wrapped up' in Sullivan's rape-murder fantasy

    By Laurie Mason Schroeder
    Allentown Morning Call

    Editor’s note: This story contains content that may be disturbing to some readers.

    Jacob Sullivan’s lawyers billed Sara Packer as the “mastermind” behind the rape and murder of her 14-year-old adopted daughter, and they said she would admit that in court.

    But that’s not what happened.

    Wearing a red prison jumpsuit and a slight smirk, Packer took the witness stand during Sullivan’s sentencing hearing in Bucks County Court Wednesday, saying it was Sullivan’s idea to rape her daughter, Grace.

    “I got wrapped up in Jake’s fantasy,” she told the jury. “I didn’t think I could tell him no without losing him.”

    Packer also told the jury that killing Grace was not part of their original plan. She and Sullivan intended to imprison the teen in the attic of their rented Richland Township home “for years” so that Sullivan could rape her whenever he wanted, Packer testified.

    “I think he just panicked,” she said, about Sullivan strangling the teen hours after the rape. “The reality of what he had done set in, and there was no going back. So he decided that it was time for her to die.”

    Sullivan, 46, pleaded guilty last month to 18 crimes, including first-degree murder, rape of a child and kidnapping. Jurors are now deciding whether Sullivan will be sentenced to life in prison or death.

    Moments after Packer entered the courtroom, Sullivan dabbed his eyes with a tissue. She looked first at him, then around the room, smiling at times as defense attorney Jack Fagan asked her questions.

    Packer told the jury that she “hated” Grace, and had wanted her out of her life for years.

    “She had become a non-entity to me,” she said.

    When Sullivan began the rape by punching Grace in the face, Packer told the jury, her daughter asked her for help.

    “I can’t help you anymore,” she said she told Grace. “This is your life now.”

    As part of his guilty plea, Sullivan admitted that he and Packer plotted Grace's rape and murder for months and carried it out on July 8, 2016, to fulfill a sexual fantasy. In a taped confession, Sullivan said that as Grace was being raped, she looked pleadingly to her mother, to no avail.

    “She wanted Grace to see that she wasn’t going to save her. She got off on that,” Sullivan told a detective. “I did too, to tell you the truth.”

    Grace spent her last 12 hours gagged and hogtied in a sweltering attic closet. Sullivan said he strangled the teen when she did not succumb to the sleep medication he and Packer fed her in hopes of poisoning her. Sullivan admitted that they kept Grace’s body in cat litter for months, then dismembered and dumped her remains in Luzerne County, where they were found by hunters on Halloween, 2016.

    Sara Packer, 44, is expected to plead guilty to first-degree murder and other crimes after Sullivan’s case is complete. As part of a plea deal, which Bucks County District Attorney Matthew Weintraub explained to the jury Wednesday, she will avoid the death penalty and serve life in prison.

    Packer — who had lived in Allentown when she and her then-husband, David Packer, adopted Grace and her younger brother in 2007 — spent about an hour on the stand Wednesday. Earlier in tye day, the jury heard statements from Grace’s family members.

    In a letter, Grace’s younger brother, now 14, asked jurors and the community to honor his sister by helping other abused kids.

    "Today, Grace can become a hero," Josh wrote.

    He and Grace, who had been with the Packers since they were toddlers, had a “hard life” and moved around a lot, he wrote.

    David Packer was sent to prison in 2010 for molesting Grace. By 2013, Jacob Sullivan had moved in with Sara Packer and the children in Allentown, then they moved to several apartments in Montgomery County.

    "I want everyone here to make sure you watch out for all the kids," Josh wrote in a letter read by Abington police Detective Cindy Pettinato, who began the investigation into Grace's disappearance in 2016. Josh was not in the courtroom.

    He asked jurors “to help kids when they cannot help themselves. … If all of you do this, it makes Grace’s life have value, and it will help me heal," he wrote.

    Jurors also heard testimony from Grace’s grandparents, several aunts and uncles and a cousin.

    Warren and Eveyln Packer, of Northampton, told the jury that Grace loved spending weekends at their home, fishing, playing miniature golf and riding her bike at a nearby park.

    Evelyn Packer said Sara never bought her daughter new clothing but made her wear hand-me-downs. Grace was often dressed in clothes that were “overused and ready for the ragbag,” her grandmother said.

    Evelyn Packer recalled hearing Sara tell her daughter, “You’re only with me because no one else wanted you.”

    Warren Packer brought several jurors to tears with his testimony, speaking about all the milestones the family would miss with Grace, including her high school graduation and wedding.

    “We will never hear that happy little girl giggle again,” he said.

    Grace’s cousin, Karie Heisserer, talked about the fun times she had with Grace when the teen lived with Heisserer in North Carolina for 11 months in 2014-15.

    "It sickens me to know that Grace was abused, tortured and literally thrown away like she was a piece of trash," she said. "Grace is in a better place now, free from evil and pain."

    Photos of Grace during happier times were projected on a screen as family members testified.

    Weintraub spoke to jurors Wednesday morning and addressed some of the legal issues that prevented him from seeking the death penalty against Packer.

    He said that at the time he made the deal, which required Packer to cooperate with the investigation, prosecutors still did not know the full nature of her involvement in Grace’s death.

    To qualify for capital punishment, Weintraub noted, Sara had to physically carry out the murder. The law does not allow for an accomplice to receive the death penalty.

    “I am not permitted to make legal judgments of who should be eligible for the death penalty based on how evil they are,” Weintraub said.

    The hearing will resume Friday.

    https://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/...312-story.html
    "I realize this may sound harsh, but as a father and former lawman, I really don't care if it's by lethal injection, by the electric chair, firing squad, hanging, the guillotine or being fed to the lions."
    - Oklahoma Rep. Mike Christian

    "There are some people who just do not deserve to live,"
    - Rev. Richard Hawke

    “There are lots of extremely smug and self-satisfied people in what would be deemed lower down in society, who also deserve to be pulled up. In a proper free society, you should be allowed to make jokes about absolutely anything.”
    - Rowan Atkinson

  2. #42
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    Psychologist: Sara Packer 'dominated' Sullivan in rape and murder of Grace Packer

    By Laurie Mason Schroeder
    Allentown Morning Call

    The jury deciding whether Jacob Sullivan will live or die for the rape and murder of 14-year-old Grace Packer heard from a psychologist Friday who testified that Sullivan was “substantially dominated” by Sara Packer.

    Sullivan so wanted to please Packer, Grace’s adoptive mother, that he went along with her plan to have him rape Grace in front of her to satisfy her sexual fantasy, Dr. Frank Dattilio testified.

    “The worst was brought out of him, I believe, by this relationship,” Dattilio told the jury. “It became a slippery slope.”

    But during a blistering cross-examination by Bucks County District Attorney Matt Weintraub, Dattilio admitted that he couldn’t tell if Sullivan — whom he described as having intelligence “in the superior range” — lied to ensure he’d testify favorably before the jury.

    Sullivan, 46, pleaded guilty last month to first-degree murder, rape of a child and other felonies. A jury is now hearing evidence before determining if he should get life in prison or the death penalty for Grace’s July 8, 2016, killing.

    Dattilio told the jury that Sullivan was sexually abused as a child and became interested in deviant sex from a young age. The psychologist said Sullivan grew up in a San Francisco household where “strange and exotic” sex was the norm, and “traditional boundaries in regards to sexual relations did not apply.”

    After moving to Pennsylvania as a teen with his mother and stepfather, Sullivan was forced to become a Jehovah’s Witness, Dattilio said.

    Sullivan, a father of four, wanted to have sex with multiple partners at once. His marriage broke up because his wife wasn’t interested, Dattilio said. He found a kindred spirit in Sara Packer, a former Northampton County adoption supervisor, whom he met in 2013.

    “He liked her because she was very intelligent and took control of the relationship, which is what he wanted,” Dattilio said.

    The psychologist said Packer told Sullivan what to do.

    “She was very smooth in her way of dealing with him,” Dattilio told the jury. “She could manipulate him. If she threw out a fantasy, he would do whatever he could to follow it.”

    In her testimony Wednesday, Packer contradicted the psychologist’s assessment. She said Sullivan was the controlling partner in the relationship. She also said she participated in the rape and murder of her daughter to please him.

    “I got wrapped up in Jake’s fantasy,” she told the jury. “I didn’t think I could tell him no without losing him.”

    During cross-examination, Weintraub played Dattilio a snippet of a confession to detectives in which Sullivan said Packer “liked him to be in charge of the relationship.”

    As part of his guilty plea, Sullivan admitted that he and Packer brought Grace to a Richland Township home they were renting and that he raped the teen while her mother watched. They then fed Grace what they believed to be a fatal dose of over-the-counter sleep medication before leaving her, gagged and hog-tied, in a sweltering attic for 12 hours.

    Finding her still alive, Sullivan strangled Grace, he admitted. Police say he and Packer hid Grace’s body in cat litter for months in their attic before dismembering it and dumping her remains in Luzerne County, where hunters found it in October 2016.

    In court Friday, Weintraub repeatedly asked Dattilio if he’d investigated Sullivan’s version of the crime. Dattilio eventually conceded that he could not be sure Sullivan was telling him the truth.

    As the exchange between the district attorney and witness became more heated, Sullivan leaned back in his chair and craned his neck to see Weintraub, staring angrily at the prosecutor.

    Jurors also heard more Friday about Sara Packer’s alleged knowledge of her ex-husband’s sex crimes when the family lived in Allentown.

    Sullivan’s attorneys read a statement from a 28-year-old woman who was sexually assaulted by Sara’s ex-husband, David Packer, when she was a teenager. The Morning Call does not publish the names of sex assault victims.

    In the statement, the woman wrote that she came to live with the Packers at their home on North Fulton Street in 2007, when she was 15 years old. Within four months, she wrote, David Packer began sexually abusing her.

    The woman wrote that Sara Packer did not join in on the sex until she was 18, which meant that the acts were legal.

    But during the prior two years, David Packer bought “kinky” outfits for the teen that were kept in Sara’s closet, she wrote. She also said her bedroom was next to the Packers’, and that David Packer would often tie her to her bed overnight, though she would yell for hours because she needed to use the bathroom. Based on those facts, Sullivan’s lawyers said, the former foster child believed Sara Packer knew what her husband was doing.

    On Wednesday, another former foster child testified that she found sexually explicit photos of the Packers and that teen on a cellphone in the Packer house and called police.

    David Packer eventually pleaded guilty to sexually assaulting the teen foster child and Grace, and was sent to prison. Two Allentown police detectives involved in that case were at the courthouse Wednesday, but they were not called to the stand.

    Another foster child testified that Sara Packer often physically abused Grace. She said she reported the abuse at least three times to her caseworker at The Impact Project in Emmaus, which placed foster children in the Packer home, but she was ignored.

    The hearing ended abruptly Friday after the defense called a prison expert to the stand. James Aiken was telling the jury that a person like Sullivan, who is older than most inmates and has committed a sex crime against a child, would be a target of violence and require protection.

    “His safety is the number one priority,” Aiken said.

    Judge Diane E. Gibbons excused the jurors from the courtroom, then asked Sullivan if he realized that, if the line of questioning continued, Weintraub would be able to argue that Sullivan was afraid of being victimized by his fellow inmates the same way he victimized Grace.

    When Sullivan and his attorneys could not agree on the best way to proceed, Gibbons said she would give them the weekend to discuss it and recessed the hearing until Monday.

    https://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/...322-story.html
    "I realize this may sound harsh, but as a father and former lawman, I really don't care if it's by lethal injection, by the electric chair, firing squad, hanging, the guillotine or being fed to the lions."
    - Oklahoma Rep. Mike Christian

    "There are some people who just do not deserve to live,"
    - Rev. Richard Hawke

    “There are lots of extremely smug and self-satisfied people in what would be deemed lower down in society, who also deserve to be pulled up. In a proper free society, you should be allowed to make jokes about absolutely anything.”
    - Rowan Atkinson

  3. #43
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    Killer of Grace Packer described as 'gentle giant'

    By Laurie Mason Schroeder
    Allentown Morning Call

    Jurors deciding between life and death for Jacob Sullivan could begin deliberations as early as Tuesday afternoon. His defense attorneys rested their case Monday without calling the 46-year-old former Horsham man who has pleaded guilty to raping and killing 14-year-old Grace Packer.

    On Monday, Bucks County jurors heard from several family members who described Sullivan as a quiet and artistic child who grew up to be a “gentle giant.”

    All the relatives, who flew in from as far away as California and Hawaii to testify on his behalf, said they were “shocked” when they learned about the crime.

    “I’m here because I love him,” said Sullivan’s father, Charles Reitzner. “I still can’t believe it. Jake was always gentle and loving.”

    Sullivan pleaded guilty last month to first-degree murder, rape of a child and related charges. As part of his guilty plea, Sullivan admitted that he and Sara Packer, Grace’s adoptive mother, plotted Grace’s rape and murder for months and carried it out on July 8, 2016 to fulfill a sexual fantasy.

    Sullivan admitted he and Sara Packer dismembered Grace’s body and dumped the remains in Luzerne County, where they were found by hunters on Halloween 2016.

    Sullivan’s defense attorneys called a half-dozen family members to the stand. His brother, cousins, step-sister and several others talked about Sullivan’s life in Wisconsin, where he was born, and then San Francisco,where he lived until his early teens.

    The witnesses said Sullivan’s mother was an alcoholic and his father admitted to experimenting with drugs. Sullivan’s parents were never married and maintained separate homes for most of his childhood before both remarried, his father told the jury.

    Sullivan came to Pennsylvania with his mother and stepfather as a teen and was forced to become a Jehovah’s Witness, relatives testified.

    “It was a complete flip side to what we were used to,” said Sullivan’s brother, Brian Sullivan.

    Jacob Sullivan was disfellowed, or shunned, after he got a girlfriend pregnant, his brother said.

    “My stepfather was an elder in the congregation. It did not shine well on the family,” Brian Sullivan testified.

    Though several family members talked about the Sullivan home being “chaotic,” none mentioned Sullivan being sexually abused as a child by both a man and a woman acting together, which a psychologist testified about last week.

    Lynn Hughes, Sullivan’s aunt, described Sullivan, who is 6-foot, 4-inches tall and weighed more than 300 pounds at the time he committed the crime, as a “gentle giant.”

    Hughes brought several photos of Sullivan to show the jury, depicting him as a young boy enjoying holidays and fishing, and later cavorting with his four children at the Wisconsin State Fair.

    Sullivan’s children were not among the witnesses. Chief Deputy District Attorney Jennifer Schorn noted that they have not participated in his defense.

    Sullivan wept and wiped his eyes with a tissue while his family members spoke.

    Sara Packer, a former Northampton County adoption supervisor and foster care caseworker for The Impact Project in Emmaus, is expected to plead guilty to first-degree murder and other crimes after Sullivan’s case is complete. As part of a plea deal, she will avoid the death penalty and serve life in prison.

    It is unclear whether Packer’ plea will be heard before or after Sullivan is formally sentenced. Last week. Packer testified that the rape and murder was Sullivan’s idea.

    Jurors will hear closing arguments Tuesday morning, followed by legal instructions from Judge Diane E. Gibbons.

    A sentence of death must be unanimous. Only one vote for life is needed for Sullivan to get that sentence.

    https://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/...323-story.html
    "I realize this may sound harsh, but as a father and former lawman, I really don't care if it's by lethal injection, by the electric chair, firing squad, hanging, the guillotine or being fed to the lions."
    - Oklahoma Rep. Mike Christian

    "There are some people who just do not deserve to live,"
    - Rev. Richard Hawke

    “There are lots of extremely smug and self-satisfied people in what would be deemed lower down in society, who also deserve to be pulled up. In a proper free society, you should be allowed to make jokes about absolutely anything.”
    - Rowan Atkinson

  4. #44
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    "Her life ended in a house of horrors"- Prosecutor seeks death for Grace Packer's killer

    By Laurie Mason Schroeder
    Allentown Morning Call

    For a two full minutes, time stopped in the Bucks County courtroom where jurors are deciding between life and death for Grace Packer’s killer.

    As photos of the 14-year-old former Allentown girl flashed on a large screen next to a countdown clock, District Attorney Matt Weintraub stood before admitted child killer Jacob Sullivan and stared into his face.

    For two full minutes — the length of time Sullivan admitted it took to strangle Grace — Weintraub stared at Sullivan, not speaking. The only sound was Grace’s relatives weeping softly in the courtroom gallery.

    Sullivan’s back was to the audience, where this reporter was seated. He turned his head toward Weintraub, then toward the screen to his left, then toward the jury on his right. Weintraub’s eyes never moved.

    It was a dramatic moment in a powerful 75-minute closing speech in which Weintraub argued that Sullivan deserved the death penalty for raping, kidnapping and killing Grace.

    “Her life ended in a house of horrors that became a hell on earth,” Weintraub told the jury. “To him, she was less than human. A thing. Something to act out his fantasies on.”

    Sullivan, 46, pleaded guilty last month to first-degree murder, rape of a child and related charges. As part of his guilty plea, Sullivan admitted that he and Sara Packer, Grace’s adoptive mother, plotted Grace’s rape and murder for months and carried it out on July 8, 2016 in Richland Township.

    Sullivan admitted he and Sara Packer dismembered Grace’s body and dumped the remains in Luzerne County, where they were found by hunters on Halloween 2016.

    As part of a plea deal, Sara Packer will serve life in prison for her part in the crime.

    In his closing argument, Sullivan’s attorney, Jack Fagan, told jurors that Sullivan and Packer should be treated the same. Without Sullivan’s confession, which he gave following a failed suicide pact with Packer, prosecutors would have a weak case against both defendants, Fagan said.

    “He presented them with a map of what happened on this tragic day,” he told the jury.

    Fagan argued that Packer “groomed” Sullivan to rape Grace, just as Packer groomed her former husband to sexually assault Grace and a teenage foster daughter. He said the former Northampton County adoption supervisor hated her daughter before she met Sullivan in 2013, and coerced him into getting rid of the girl.

    “She came up with the idea. She’s the brains of the operation,” Fagan said. “She’s a controlling, manipulative individual who ran the show and controlled my client.”

    Judge Diane E. Gibbons will instruct jurors on the law after the lunch break, then deliberations will begin.

    https://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/...325-story.html
    "I realize this may sound harsh, but as a father and former lawman, I really don't care if it's by lethal injection, by the electric chair, firing squad, hanging, the guillotine or being fed to the lions."
    - Oklahoma Rep. Mike Christian

    "There are some people who just do not deserve to live,"
    - Rev. Richard Hawke

    “There are lots of extremely smug and self-satisfied people in what would be deemed lower down in society, who also deserve to be pulled up. In a proper free society, you should be allowed to make jokes about absolutely anything.”
    - Rowan Atkinson

  5. #45
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    So the jury asked a confusing question about whether they can consider life without parole as a mitigating factor.

    Judge asked foreman if they meant Packer’s sentence. Foreman said “both.” Judge asked them to clarify.

    They’ve been deliberating 9 hours over two days.

    https://twitter.com/LehighCourts
    "I realize this may sound harsh, but as a father and former lawman, I really don't care if it's by lethal injection, by the electric chair, firing squad, hanging, the guillotine or being fed to the lions."
    - Oklahoma Rep. Mike Christian

    "There are some people who just do not deserve to live,"
    - Rev. Richard Hawke

    “There are lots of extremely smug and self-satisfied people in what would be deemed lower down in society, who also deserve to be pulled up. In a proper free society, you should be allowed to make jokes about absolutely anything.”
    - Rowan Atkinson

  6. #46
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    The Jacob Sullivan jury just told the judge they cannot reach a decision.

    Judge Gibbons refused to declare them deadlocked, despite defense attorneys request.

    Judge told jurors to keep working. Told lawyers she will hold them til 5 tonight.

    https://twitter.com/LehighCourts
    "I realize this may sound harsh, but as a father and former lawman, I really don't care if it's by lethal injection, by the electric chair, firing squad, hanging, the guillotine or being fed to the lions."
    - Oklahoma Rep. Mike Christian

    "There are some people who just do not deserve to live,"
    - Rev. Richard Hawke

    “There are lots of extremely smug and self-satisfied people in what would be deemed lower down in society, who also deserve to be pulled up. In a proper free society, you should be allowed to make jokes about absolutely anything.”
    - Rowan Atkinson

  7. #47
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    Jury sentences Jacob Sullivan to death for rape and murder of Grace Packer

    By Laurie Mason Schroeder

    Allentown Morning Call

    Jacob Sullivan is headed to death row for the rape and murder of 14-year-old Grace Packer.

    A Bucks County jury deliberated for 12 hours over three days before reaching their verdict. On Wednesday, the panel appeared to be struggling with their life or death decision, but the judge refused to declare them deadlocked — a move that would have triggered an automatic life sentence for Sullivan.

    After the jury sent a note to Judge Diane E. Gibbons indicating they could not reach a verdict “after sufficient deliberation,” Gibbons ordered them to return to the Justice Center in Doylestown Thursday morning.

    Gibbons thanked the jurors and urged them to get counseling if they needed. One juror, a man, appeared to be crying as they were as being polled on the verdict.

    “The butchery in this case was beyond my ability to describe,” Gibbons said. “To live through it vicariously through the photos and the tapes and the recordings ... must have taken a toll.”

    Sullivan did not react to the verdict. Seconds after it was read, deputies surrounded him and handcuffed him.

    In reaching their verdict, the jurors noted some mitigating factors, such as Sullivan’s lack of a criminal history, but found they were outweighed by the the aggravating factor, which was that the murder was committed in the course of another felony.

    Sullivan, 46, of Horsham, pleaded guilty last month to first-degree murder, rape of a child and related charges.

    As part of his plea, Sullivan admitted that he and Sara Packer, Grace’s adoptive mother, plotted Grace’s rape and murder for months and carried it out on July 8, 2016, in a Richland Township home they had rented.

    Sullivan admitted he and Sara Packer dismembered Grace’s body and dumped the remains in Luzerne County, where they were found by hunters on Halloween 2016.

    As part of a plea deal, Sara Packer will plead guilty to first-degree murder and other crimes and be sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole. That hearing was supposed to happen Wednesday, but was postponed indefinitely because Sullivan’s case isn’t complete.

    https://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/...327-story.html
    "I realize this may sound harsh, but as a father and former lawman, I really don't care if it's by lethal injection, by the electric chair, firing squad, hanging, the guillotine or being fed to the lions."
    - Oklahoma Rep. Mike Christian

    "There are some people who just do not deserve to live,"
    - Rev. Richard Hawke

    “There are lots of extremely smug and self-satisfied people in what would be deemed lower down in society, who also deserve to be pulled up. In a proper free society, you should be allowed to make jokes about absolutely anything.”
    - Rowan Atkinson

  8. #48
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    'Make Grace the hero': Read victim impact statement from Grace Packer's brother

    By Laurie Mason Schroeder
    Allentown Morning Call

    In a letter that was read last week in court by Abington police Detective Cindy Pettinato, Grace Packer’s younger brother, Josh, now 14, asked jurors and the community to honor his sister by helping other abused kids. Grace was killed in 2016.

    The entire letter follows:

    My name is Josh and my sister is Grace. I am here today because for the very first time it is my turn to talk about what I want to talk about.


    Before this tragedy, Grace and I had a very hard life. We moved all the time and we were never able to have what most people call normal. All along everybody has told me what was best for me, but nobody ever really asked me for what I thought was best. So today is my turn.


    When I lost my sister Grace, I was heartbroken and I will never be able to have as happy of a life or as normal a life as I would if Grace was here. However, something that helps me to feel better about Grace not being here is the fact that today Grace can become a hero.

    I would like all of you people in this room to stop reading, turn off your telephone, stop playing with your pencil ... and listen to why I am saying this. I want Grace to be the person you always remember the second you leave here today. I want all of you to find a way to make sure that you watch out for all the kids so that Grace’s loss never happens again because you guys are trying to make sure that you do your best to help kids when they cannot be helped by themselves.


    If all of you do this, it means that Grace’s loss has value. If you will not help me to make Grace the hero, I do not know how I can live with the loss of no reason for it. I know that Grace would do anything to make sure she should help other kids. If she was told that she would save lives by the loss of her life, she would say do what I have to do.


    Please, this will help me to heal.


    I lost everything that all of you take for normal. The best my life can ever be ever again is closer to normal, but I can never have normal because of what happened. If you all care about the impact of my loss, you will help make sure that Grace becomes the hero that I know she already is.


    My name is Josh and my sister who is a hero was Grace.


    https://www.mcall.com/news/local/mc-...326-story.html
    "I realize this may sound harsh, but as a father and former lawman, I really don't care if it's by lethal injection, by the electric chair, firing squad, hanging, the guillotine or being fed to the lions."
    - Oklahoma Rep. Mike Christian

    "There are some people who just do not deserve to live,"
    - Rev. Richard Hawke

    “There are lots of extremely smug and self-satisfied people in what would be deemed lower down in society, who also deserve to be pulled up. In a proper free society, you should be allowed to make jokes about absolutely anything.”
    - Rowan Atkinson

  9. #49
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Mike's Avatar
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    If I knew this trial was going on I would've popped in to watch it, I live like 7 mins from the Court House and was there a couple of months ago.
    "There is a point in the history of a society when it becomes so pathologically soft and tender that among other things it sides even with those who harm it, criminals, and does this quite seriously and honestly. Punishing somehow seems unfair to it, and it is certain that imagining ‘punishment’ and ‘being supposed to punish’ hurts it, arouses fear in it." Friedrich Nietzsche

  10. #50
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    They're doing this quick Mike. They've gone into another bigger room just now so the judge can formally sentence him to death.
    "I realize this may sound harsh, but as a father and former lawman, I really don't care if it's by lethal injection, by the electric chair, firing squad, hanging, the guillotine or being fed to the lions."
    - Oklahoma Rep. Mike Christian

    "There are some people who just do not deserve to live,"
    - Rev. Richard Hawke

    “There are lots of extremely smug and self-satisfied people in what would be deemed lower down in society, who also deserve to be pulled up. In a proper free society, you should be allowed to make jokes about absolutely anything.”
    - Rowan Atkinson

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