Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 51

Thread: Parole for Murderers

  1. #21
    Senior Member Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    239
    Completely agree with Helen. And so far as the case Helen is talking about, no, it's not particularly 'murky' and the injustice certainly is 'as horrible as implied." The girl was trafficked. You mention she had prior drug use. I don't know what's your point: of course she had prior drug use. You would too if day after day after day you were being raped for money (as the prostituted women I know call it). In your description of how "murky" it is you left off other parts of the same article you cited, such as the fact that the jury wasn't allowed to hear "much of her tragic backstory of prostitution, abuse and ultimately why she shot Allen. Brown said when she was 16 she was a runaway and met a 24-year-old man known as "Cut-throat." She started living with him and they moved around to different hotels, the Associated Press reported. He was abusive—both physically and emotionally—and forced her to prostitute herself for money. He also regularly choked, beat and raped her. "He would explain to me that some people were born whores, and that I was one, and I was a slut, and nobody'd want me but him, and the best thing I could do was just learn to be a good whore," Brown told a judge in 2012 during an appeal hearing." that's from the article you cited. If you want to learn more about what women in these situations go through, there are plenty of good books by survivors like Rachel Moran. Judith Herman's Trauma and Recovery is a good exploration of the effects of repeated trauma on the psyche. It will also help people understand why many battered women don't leave. And a very good book on the psychology of battered women who kill is "When Battered Women Kill" by Angela Browne. https://www.amazon.com/When-Battered.../dp/0029038812

  2. #22
    Administrator Helen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    20,875
    Thank you Derrick! Very well said
    "I realize this may sound harsh, but as a father and former lawman, I really don't care if it's by lethal injection, by the electric chair, firing squad, hanging, the guillotine or being fed to the lions."
    - Oklahoma Rep. Mike Christian

    "There are some people who just do not deserve to live,"
    - Rev. Richard Hawke

    “There are lots of extremely smug and self-satisfied people in what would be deemed lower down in society, who also deserve to be pulled up. In a proper free society, you should be allowed to make jokes about absolutely anything.”
    - Rowan Atkinson

  3. #23
    Administrator Aaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    New Jersey, unfortunately
    Posts
    4,382
    If that is the case, then there ought to be an avenue of appeal based on such a trial. Voluntary manslaughter may or may not be a valid downgrade, but trying her as a juvenile would have been. If the case is truly that horrible the system failed, and I'm guessing that the judge's hands were tied - similar to some of the "three strikes" cases. Her only chance now would be a pardon or clemency, if either are attainable.
    Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next products.

    "They will hurt you. They will hurt your grandma, these people. The root cause of this is there's no discipline in the homes, they don't go to school, you know, they live off the government, no personal accountability, and they just beat people up for no reason, and it's disgusting." - Former Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters

  4. #24
    Administrator Helen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    20,875
    There might be another avenue for her. The supreme court ruled that life sentences for juveniles is unconstitutional.

    Maybe they can try for a resentencing in her case and be allowed to submit mitigating circumstances of her past abuse to the judge, or jury.
    "I realize this may sound harsh, but as a father and former lawman, I really don't care if it's by lethal injection, by the electric chair, firing squad, hanging, the guillotine or being fed to the lions."
    - Oklahoma Rep. Mike Christian

    "There are some people who just do not deserve to live,"
    - Rev. Richard Hawke

    “There are lots of extremely smug and self-satisfied people in what would be deemed lower down in society, who also deserve to be pulled up. In a proper free society, you should be allowed to make jokes about absolutely anything.”
    - Rowan Atkinson

  5. #25
    Senior Member CnCP Addict one_two_bomb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Detroit MI
    Posts
    965
    Quote Originally Posted by Moh View Post
    What if it was the first-degree premeditated murder of someone who'd raped someone close to the murderer and the murderer had had no priors whatsoever?
    yes. death penalty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helen View Post
    What if the victim was murdered by their spouse who he had been abusing for decades? What if they felt they had no choice?

    Are they never to be forgiven?
    if they had reason to believe they may be abused imminently, then it may be manslaughter or possibly self-defense. but doing something like hiring a hitman, or killing them in their sleep, then to me its simply first degree murder, and should be punished by death.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fact View Post
    Someone with no prior record who shoots and kills someone in the heat of passion doesn't necessarily deserve to go to prison for the rest of their life.
    For the most part i disagree. i don't buy the "heat of passion" argument. for example, if two people arguing, and one say, pushes them down the stairs and they die, then that to me would be manslaughter. they didn't necessarily premeditatedly, intentionally kill them. but if two people are in an argument, and one say, stabs them 20 times, or cuts their throat, or gets a gun, points it at them, and pulls the trigger, all of those scenarios are premeditated murder. i don't care that they were under stress or pissed off at the time, they committed a murder and deserve to die, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helen View Post
    I think it would be difficult, if not impossible to find 12 jurors that would render a dp verdict for a filthy pedophile.

    I know I wouldn't.
    James Porter, executed in Texas in 2004, was sentenced to death for murdering a pedophile. so it is possible. Sympathy for the victim should not be a requirement when sentencing someone to death, IMO. There are lots of murder victims i don't have sympathy for, yet i still want their murderer(s) executed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    As far as an abused spouse goes, I believe there's too much of a cooling off period for it to be voluntary manslaughter. That being said, it is a mitigating factor. I highly doubt a jury would unanimously vote for the death penalty in such a case.
    That's why i believe we should do away with aggravating and mitigating factors, as well as with the sentencing phase altogether. Make death mandatory for murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derrick Jensen View Post
    Brown said when she was 16 she was a runaway and met a 24-year-old man known as "Cut-throat." She started living with him and they moved around to different hotels, the Associated Press reported. He was abusive—both physically and emotionally—and forced her to prostitute herself for money. He also regularly choked, beat and raped her.
    Except she didn't kill the pimp who was raping, abusing and trafficking her. She killed a customer who paid for sex with her, while he was asleep and posed no threat to her, and then robbed him, and then WENT BACK to the pimp. While i have no sympathy for the victim in this case, this is nothing more than a cold blooded, premeditated murder. if it were up to me, she would be on death row.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helen View Post
    There might be another avenue for her. The supreme court ruled that life sentences for juveniles is unconstitutional.

    Maybe they can try for a resentencing in her case and be allowed to submit mitigating circumstances of her past abuse to the judge, or jury.
    I may be wrong, but I believe she doesn't have a true life sentence, I think her sentence is 60 years or something so I don't think that ruling would apply to her. Also the supreme court didn't rule life sentences for juveniles unconstitutional, only mandatory LWOP sentences. They can still get LWOP, but there has to be another option available.

    These are my opinions guys. Agree or disagree, but that doesn't make anybody right or wrong. They are just opinions.

  6. #26
    Administrator Helen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    20,875
    Cyntoia Brown: Parole panel split during clemency hearing for Nashville woman sentenced to life

    By Anita Wadhwani
    The Tennessean

    A divided state board of parole sent no clear message to Gov. Bill Haslam on whether he should grant clemency to Cyntoia Brown, a Nashville woman serving a life sentence for a murder she committed in 2004 at age 16.

    The six-member panel split three ways on their recommendations to the governor. Two voted to recommend that the governor grant clemency, allowing for her release from prison. Two members voted to recommend that Haslam deny her clemency bid, meaning she would continue to serve a life sentence.

    Two members recommended the governor reduce her current sentence of life in prison to twenty-five years, meaning Brown could continue to serve an additional 11 years in prison. A seventh board member was not present.

    It will be up to Gov. Bill Haslam to accept or reject any of the recommendations.

    Haslam, in his second term as governor, has thus far not granted any bids for clemency, but it is not uncommon in Tennessee for governors to grant such requests shortly before they exit office.

    The recommendations came at the end of an emotional three-and-one-half hour hearing Wednesday at the Tennessee Prison for Women in Nashville.

    Brown, now 30, confessed to shooting real estate agent Johnny Allen, 43, after he picked her up at an east Nashville Sonic Drive-In. Allen was a stranger and Brown, who had run away from home, was living in a hotel with a man whom, she said, forced her into prostitution.

    Prosecutors said she committed a cold blooded murder, then robbed Allen before she fled with his car. Advocates for Brown have said she was a victim of sex trafficking who feared for her life while with Allen.

    Under Tennessee law, Brown's sentence came with a mandatory 51 years behind bars before being eligible for parole.

    At Wednesday's hearing Brown sat in prison-issued blue jeans and a t-shirt, a box of tissue in front, addressing the six-member panel.

    She apologized for the crime, acknowledging friends of Allen seated only a few feet to her left.

    "There are people here today and they are hurting 14 years later and I did that and I can't fix that. I can't fix that," Brown said.

    "I am a changed person because I had no choice but to be," she said. "If I were to get out today, it would still be the same. There would still be something I've done that I can't undo."

    But, Brown said, she would use the opportunity of life outside of prison to reach out to other troubled teens.

    Brown has amassed a committed group of backers including prominent Nashville attorneys, youth advocates and even vicim's advocate groups. They took turns testifying about the transformation undergone by Brown in prison, where she has earned an associates degree, mentored other prisoners and even volunteered to counsel teens in the city's juvenile justice system by participating in their classes via speaker home.

    Several people were there on behalf of Allen, the victim. Had he lived, Allen would be 57 years old.

    In recent years, Brown's case has garnered international attention. Brown was featured in the documentary "Me Facing Life: Cyntoia's Story" by filmmaker Dan Birman. In 2016, a joint reporting project on juvenile sentencing laws by the USA TODAY NETWORK - Tennessee, Dan H. Birman Productions and "Independent Lens" explored Brown's trial and conviction in depth.

    Last year, that attention gained further momentum when celebrities including Rihanna and Kim Kardashian West called for Brown's release. On social media, the hashtag #FreeCyntoiaBrown went viral.

    Anna Whaley, a longtime friend of Allen's, said his story has been lost in all the attention focused on Brown.

    "Johnny has a voice and Johnny's family has a voice," she said. "Johnny's voice has not been heard in all these years. I want to say Johnny's life mattered."

    "Cyntoia went out that night with a loaded gun in her purse and that was the gun she used to kill Johnny," Whaley said. "She robbed Johnny after she shot him in the back of the head."

    "There is no proof Johnny picked her up for sex," she said. "All we know is that Johnny offered her food....We know for sure that she shot him."

    Allen's father suffered a heart attack and died two weeks after his murder.

    "Cyntoia is responsible for two lives," she said.

    The parole board's recommendations are not binding. Haslam has previously said he was "aware" of Brown's case but has not indicated whether he will grant her attorney's request to commute her first degree sentence to a second degree sentence, which would pave the way for her release for time already served.

    More: Teen killer's story inspires push to change Tennessee law

    More: Cyntoia Brown 'appreciative and overwhelmed' by clemency efforts

    More: #FREECYNTOIABROWN goes viral following Rihanna's Instagram post

    Separately, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati is set to hear oral arguments on June 14 from lawyers for Brown challenging her sentence as unconstitutional. State attorneys defending Brown's sentence have argued her sentence does not contradict a U.S. Supreme Court ruling that found life sentences for juveniles to be cruel and unusual punishment in most instances.

    Brown's lawyers, led by Nashville attorney Charles Bone, have argued Brown did not have the mental state necessary to be culpable for murder.

    More than a dozen juvenile advocacy groups filed a legal brief in support of Brown.

    https://www.tennessean.com/story/new...ncy/622627002/
    "I realize this may sound harsh, but as a father and former lawman, I really don't care if it's by lethal injection, by the electric chair, firing squad, hanging, the guillotine or being fed to the lions."
    - Oklahoma Rep. Mike Christian

    "There are some people who just do not deserve to live,"
    - Rev. Richard Hawke

    “There are lots of extremely smug and self-satisfied people in what would be deemed lower down in society, who also deserve to be pulled up. In a proper free society, you should be allowed to make jokes about absolutely anything.”
    - Rowan Atkinson

  7. #27
    Senior Member CnCP Addict one_two_bomb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Detroit MI
    Posts
    965
    She is nothing but a filthy murderer and deserves to be right where she is, which is in prison. Because she is young, female, and had a difficult life does not justify murdering that man in any way, shape or form, even if the victim happened to be a scumbag. Nothing makes me sicker than people advocating for a murderer when there is no question of guilt.

  8. #28
    Administrator Helen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    20,875
    Yes because we should never have sympathy for anyone. Not even a child who ended up in the foster care system, has fetal alcohol syndrome because her mom drank a fifth of whiskey a day and then eventually ended up on the street being pimped out at the age of 16, by a guy named "Cutthroat".

    Not every murder is the same, unlike what you seem to believe. Sometimes forgiveness is the right thing to do.
    "I realize this may sound harsh, but as a father and former lawman, I really don't care if it's by lethal injection, by the electric chair, firing squad, hanging, the guillotine or being fed to the lions."
    - Oklahoma Rep. Mike Christian

    "There are some people who just do not deserve to live,"
    - Rev. Richard Hawke

    “There are lots of extremely smug and self-satisfied people in what would be deemed lower down in society, who also deserve to be pulled up. In a proper free society, you should be allowed to make jokes about absolutely anything.”
    - Rowan Atkinson

  9. #29
    Senior Member CnCP Addict one_two_bomb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Detroit MI
    Posts
    965
    Bull crap. Those aren't reasons to have sympathy for a murderer. Where was the sympathy for Erick Davila, who was conceived during a rape and mom was a drug addict? You also complained when Christopher Whittaker and Brian Golsby's defense talked about their bad childhoods. The real difference is those are all males who murdered young females, while Cyntoia Brown is a young female who murdered a male. She chose to murder that man, she very easily could have just left, or even robbed him without killing him. She is no better than Juan Castillo, who was just executed.

    Had she killed this "cutthroat" who had been pimping her out, I'd be more inclined to support a manslaughter or even self defense verdict. But she didn't she murdered a man who's only crime was paying for sex with an underage girl, robbed him and WENT BACK to this "cutthroat". Was the victim a scum bag? Absolutely. Did he deserve to be murdered? Absolutely not. He had the exact same right not to be murdered as you, I, or anyone.

  10. #30
    Administrator Helen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    20,875
    Except the murdering rapist, Brian Goldsby wasn't sex trafficked as a child, he committed his crime as an adult and his victim was completely innocent.

    You comment; she murdered a man who's only crime was paying for sex with an underage girl, like somehow its not such a bad crime. Except that as long as you have men willing to purchase underage children for sex you will have victims like Cynotia.

    And you're wrong about me. I have often commented on how women get a pass, or a plea deal, where as the men go to prison, especially in the cases where children are the victim's.
    "I realize this may sound harsh, but as a father and former lawman, I really don't care if it's by lethal injection, by the electric chair, firing squad, hanging, the guillotine or being fed to the lions."
    - Oklahoma Rep. Mike Christian

    "There are some people who just do not deserve to live,"
    - Rev. Richard Hawke

    “There are lots of extremely smug and self-satisfied people in what would be deemed lower down in society, who also deserve to be pulled up. In a proper free society, you should be allowed to make jokes about absolutely anything.”
    - Rowan Atkinson

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •