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Thread: Do you guys think a Hillary Clinton President would’ve been better for the Death Penalty?

  1. #1
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Neil's Avatar
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    Do you guys think a Hillary Clinton President would’ve been better for the Death Penalty?

    While it was in the Democratic platform to get rid of the death penalty in 2016, it would’ve taken a lot longer for that to come into fruition. The reason I say I that is because the Republicans still held congress after Trump’s election. He didn’t have a coattail effect. Many of them outran Trump in 2016 and won districts Clinton won. Virginia never would’ve been on the verge of abolishing the death penalty because the Gillespie ticket would’ve been in the Governors mansion. He would’ve kept the maps in favor of the Republican for another decade. The midterms in my eyes for the Republicans would’ve been way better because of her unpopular in the White House they might’ve had a super majority to pass all kinds of conservative judges for 2019 and 2020.

  2. #2
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Mike's Avatar
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    No, the federal judiciary exists. Control of the senate means nothing when the president can use recess appointments.

    Republican run states are also where the death penalty dies.
    "There is a point in the history of a society when it becomes so pathologically soft and tender that among other things it sides even with those who harm it, criminals, and does this quite seriously and honestly. Punishing somehow seems unfair to it, and it is certain that imagining ‘punishment’ and ‘being supposed to punish’ hurts it, arouses fear in it." Friedrich Nietzsche

  3. #3
    Administrator Aaron's Avatar
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    No, no, and thrice no.

    Also, you do realize that the Senate can't just take it upon themselves to appoint federal judges right? You know that the President has to nominate them first?

    A Republican-led Senate could have blocked any Clinton nominees and kept the vacancies open, but that would be it. Many of the federal judges confirmed under Trump would have never been nominated by Clinton or any other Democrat.
    Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next products.

    "They will hurt you. They will hurt your grandma, these people. The root cause of this is there's no discipline in the homes, they don't go to school, you know, they live off the government, no personal accountability, and they just beat people up for no reason, and it's disgusting." - Former Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters

  4. #4
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Steven AB's Avatar
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    The two first comments are disinformed or disinformative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil123 View Post
    The midterms in my eyes for the Republicans would’ve been way better because of her unpopular in the White House they might’ve had a super majority to pass all kinds of conservative judges for 2019 and 2020.
    The super-majority requirement was abolished in 2013 for lower-courts judges, and in 2017 for the Justices. Republicans successfully filed all (two) vacancies that arose in the Supreme Court.

    It is at best a conjecture that Clinton's election would have subsequently favored Republicans, but what is an established fact is that members of the Judiciary are not elected by the Senate. The Senate gives only an advice and consent to presidential nominees, and judges resulting from Trump-McConnell appointments are far more conservative that those that would have been the product of Clinton-McConnell compromises.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    No, the federal judiciary exists. Control of the senate means nothing when the president can use recess appointments.
    Recess appointments expire at the end of the next congressional session, while non-recess appointments in the Judiciary are for life. That's quite more than nothing.

    It is a consensual and widespread information that judicial nominations are among Republicans' best achievements during this presidential term.
    Last edited by Steven AB; 05-10-2020 at 07:28 PM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Neil's Avatar
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    Trumps election actually made abolition much more of a reality then anything he actually galvanized the far left base of this country to come out in droves as evident in the midterms of 2018. Also, I am aware that senate cannot just select judges on their own. Personally, the Republicans especially after 2018, would’ve kept confirming Merrick Garland type judges I don’t think those type of judges would’ve dismantled the death penalty. McConnell probably would’ve kept Scalia's seat vacant. Also, the Republican leadership would’ve kept Kennedy on the Supreme Court just like what the Democrats are doing with Ginsburg now. As much as we all hate Kennedy he would never have taken up an abolition case.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Steven AB's Avatar
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    It is also a conjecture or a dodge to claim that the left would not be in the same or a better situation had Clinton been elected.

    As to the suggestions that Scalia's seat could have remained vacant for over four years, that the death penalty is not in a better situation with Gorsuch instead of Garland, and also that Kavanaugh is not better than Kennedy for the death penalty, at this point I believe that describing these three assumptions is an adequate response.
    Last edited by Steven AB; 05-10-2020 at 07:45 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Neil's Avatar
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    No it’s not Trump is hated by the minorities of this country. I live in a majority minority area in New Jersey and they hate him with a passion here and it’s the same in many other minority states. You do realize Steven that’s why the far left came out in droves in the 2018 midterms was because he was in office. In Virginia, my old home state when people were being interviewed they said they came out to vote because they hate Trump. That state which was the biggest death penalty state in the country only behind Texas is on the verge of abolition now due to the leftist take over there. Under Obama they had Bob McDonnell who was a true constitutional conservative and they had a near super majority in the house. Obama’s second term while they lost the governorship they still had the legislature there and them keeping the legislature made it possible for Morva being executed. Now with Trump in the White House my beautiful commonwealth will look like New Jersey.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Steven AB's Avatar
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    You repeat the claim that the situation of the left would not be the same or better without Trump, which is of course unverifiable.

    At least you don't repeat the claim that the Supreme Court would not be very liberal, because that is the priority. Without this court, no matter who is in the Virginia Legislature or governor mansion. This very website would have closed or changed its name.
    Last edited by Steven AB; 05-10-2020 at 08:13 PM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Neil's Avatar
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    Oh it is very verifiable Minorities don’t vote for the Republican candidate he’s a Republican who’s very much hated by minorities. Furthermore, Trump stirs so much passion and energy on the left. His election spawned the women’s march and the me too movement. Also, Kennedy recommended to Trump he pick Kavanaugh. Kavanaugh is a bust to the Supreme Court. He’s been a bust to the court with his swing bromance with Roberts. That Bucklew case was the only good death penalty decision he made. Also, let me say this, State Supreme Courts are just as important as the national Supreme Court. That’s why Delaware’s Supreme Court tossed all their death sentences out. Connecticut released their death row inmates after their repeal even though they said it was not retroactive. If Virginia which was the second most active death penalty state in the country up until after Morvas execution is on the verge of abolition then you can say his election led to the a much quicker demise of the death penalty in this country.

  10. #10
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Mike's Avatar
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    Virginia has sentenced to death 8 people in the past 15 years. It died there long before Obama even had his first term.
    "There is a point in the history of a society when it becomes so pathologically soft and tender that among other things it sides even with those who harm it, criminals, and does this quite seriously and honestly. Punishing somehow seems unfair to it, and it is certain that imagining ‘punishment’ and ‘being supposed to punish’ hurts it, arouses fear in it." Friedrich Nietzsche

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