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Thread: Minneapolis Riots / Atlanta Shooting

  1. #21
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Alfred's Avatar
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    Well said Aaron. I think the real tragedy here is that probably none of the officers arrested over the last few weeks will have a fair trial, given the current hysteria and the eagerness of the elites to cave in.

    Take for example the old white guy in Buffalo. He was violating the curfew, when he saw it was actually being enforced he could have gone away, but instead decided to go right into the line of riot police.

    How stupid can you be? He was lucky that he wasn't arrested for violating the curfew. He was merely pushed away, the LEAST you can expect in such a case. And then the officers get fired when the thug makes an unfortunate fall and ends up in hospital.

    At least I was positively surprised when their 57 colleagues decided to stop working in that unit out of solidarity. Hopefully this will happen in Atlanta too today.

    Hopefully more officers will start protesting and stop their work. If they want to have anarchy, let them have it. Hopefully after a few days of total anarchy people will start respecting the police again.
    Last edited by Alfred; 06-14-2020 at 07:46 AM.

  2. #22
    Administrator Aaron's Avatar
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    At this point I don't care if some big cities plunge into chaos and anarchy. This is the leadership they voted for and the culture they've fostered. I'll continue enjoying and extolling small town life in the meantime.

    I understand that people sometimes have legitimate grievances with police, but outright abolishing the department is beyond idiotic. And again people are having their legitimate pent up anger at the elites redirected by the elites' illusory tactics - People aren't supposed to take out their anger at the king on their own village after all.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member CnCP Legend JLR's Avatar
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    I thinks it's a pretty complicated issue but lethal force should be a last resort. I dont have the full facts of the Brooks case but from what I've read, a properly trained police officer would be able to deal with the situation without shooting. I've seen tasers stolen off police in UK cop shows. The suspect did not get shot. It doesn't justify what Brooks did. But he should be in a prison cell not a coffin.

    If the old man at the protest was violating the law, you detain him with handcuffs and arrest him. You do not shove him to the floor. If you cannot deal with a 75 year old man then you should not be a police officer. Period.

    I do disagree with the notion that police officer always held accountable for their actions that are wrongful. It took 6 cops without provocation to take down and arrest Eric Garner. One of them can be seen putting him in a chokehold which is banned by the NYPD. He is stating he cannot breathe and they do nothing to release the pressure. It took 6 years to fire that officer. If any of us killed someone at work by violating workplace rules, we would be in prison for manslaughter. He kept his job for years. Pat Lynch called the firing one of the saddest days in the history of the NYPD.

    I disagree with abolishing the police, but if the head of police union thinks that firing someone who killed someone with excessive force, is a terrible thing then I agree that they should tear it down and start again. If theres is ten bad officers in a department and another 1000 who support the other 10, they you have 1010 bad apples.

  4. #24
    Administrator Helen's Avatar
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    Has anybody been reading about the city formed by Antifa and BLM in Seattle? Apparently they have taken over six blocks including a police station and have named their new city CHAZ. They have list of demands that they want the city to meet and quite a few of them are armed.

    Ironically these are some of the same people that complained about armed citizens taking over a government building in Michigan to protest the corona lock down, but they are okay with taking over several city blocks and subjecting the people who work and live there to tyranny.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Alfred's Avatar
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    75-year olds are not above the law. Had he been arrested, the media mob would have decried "the arrest of a peaceful elderly man." That's the problem with this whole thing, each and every time you give in a bit, hoping it will satisfy the radicals. But it never will. Or to put it differently, you can keep feeding the crocodile hoping it will eat you last, but it will eat you nonetheless.

    I'm really shocked that no matter the abuse or violence from the part of arrestee, it's the officer who is to blame. In the past people have died from getting a taser in their face. If someone is coming at you with a knife, a gun or a taser, as an officer, you have the full right to shoot him imo. If that is no longer the case, then I would certainly quit my job as an officer.

    And, JLR, riot police that is tasked with enforcing a curfew and cleaning the streets, is not there to arrest hundreds of people. They are there to use water canons, tear gas, sticks and indeed pushes to make people stand back and leave. You simply cannot arrest hundreds or thousands of protestors, that's insane.

  6. #26
    Senior Member CnCP Legend JLR's Avatar
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    Neither are police.. the way the media would of reported it is irrelevant. You should not shove a 75 year old man to the ground especially if they are not being aggressive. He could of died. There is no justification as to why they violently assaulted him rather than arresting him.

    No one is denying that police officers have a right to self defence but this isn't your average bloke on the street. These people are meant to be fully trained. They should be able to deal with these situations. Brooks was running away from him. Why did another officer fire a taser at him? Lethal Force should be a last resort.

    It wasn't a hundred individuals in the video. It was one isolated old man who was trying to hand a riot helmet back to the officer. There is no reason to shove the guy. It's completely unnecessary. There was no riot in the video.

    You can still support police and still recognise there are problems that need addressing. The head of the police union came out and publicly called the firing of the police officer who choked Eric Garner to death a tragedy. That entire attitude is the problem.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Alfred's Avatar
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    Neither are police? What are you referring to?

    All people are equal under the law, regardless of their age, race, sexe etc. Whether he is 75 or 18, he must respect the law, and he was not allowed to be there as a curfew was going on! Moreover he kept pointing some sort of device towards the officers. As the man that trained the unit says: "He gets up to him and he starts to rubbing this device that he has up and down on the cops [...] They have no idea what this guy's doing. Put yourself in their spot, here's a guy who has no business being here. This guy's obviously an old man. He should not be here." https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/118426...-away-lightly/

    And yes, the guy came walking out of a crowd, a crowd that was about to be removed as well. There certainly were hundreds. That's the very reason why the riot police is there. Whether there was a riot or not is totally irrelevant, there was a curfew and no one was allowed to be there.

    And with regard to Brooks, an officer used a taser because Brooks suddenly became aggressive. But the cop missed. Then Brooks stole a taser, ran away and at the very least pointed the taser towards the officer, some say he fired it. You can't say that is merely "a guy running away". What on earth is left for cops to arrest such guys? Kindly asking them whether they are willing to reconsider their behavior? Cops are not trained to arrest just any violent individual with bare hands. There is a reason why they are armed.

  8. #28
    Moderator Ryan's Avatar
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    Was the officer who shot Rayshard Brooks had justification for using a taser and switching his taser to his sidearm killing him?

    Meanwhile in Sedalia, Missouri, a police officer has shot and killed a woman at a traffic stop after she claimed to be armed and threatened to shoot the deputy officer.

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  9. #29
    Senior Member CnCP Legend JLR's Avatar
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    I was stating that the police are not above the law. They are allowed to use reasonable force. There was nothing reasonable about the use of force in that situation. I would be saying this if he was 18 let alone 75. You can see in the video he's holding one of the officers riot helmets. Violating curfew is not grounds for excessive force. If a riot cop cannot "defend himself" from a single 75 year old man rubbing a helmet on him without shoving him to the ground then he has no business protecting the public. If he was part of the crowd and got caught in the scuffle I'd have more sympathy. But he was completely seperated from them. He is surrounded by police. They then stepped over him even as it was clear he had a significant head injury. Theres blood everywhere. That was the most disturbing part for me.

    I do not condone the actions of Brooks. His actions contributed to his death. My point is the level of threat posed by Brooks never rose to the level where lethal force was the only option. If the cop missed then what chance did a drunk guy whose running away firing on the turn have? The likelihood of him hitting the cop is minimal let alone causing him any serious Injury. The other cop I'm assuming has his own taser. That should get fired in this situation before the gun. There was no imminent risk of serious injury. It's a difficult situation for the cops but I'm assuming they have been trained to deal with this. He didnt follow the protocol so he has been fired like any other person would of at any other job.

    I've also read that apparently after the shooting rather than administering first aid like they are trained to do, they went around collecting shell casings. There is no justification for that.

    Cops have guns to protect themselves and citizens from an imminent risk of serious injury. It should be an absolute last resort. They are not just an instant solution for dealing with difficult suspects.
    Last edited by JLR; 06-14-2020 at 05:39 PM.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Alfred's Avatar
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    I think we fundamentally disagree about the role of violence in policing. You merely see it as a tool to defend your own life. I recognize that (a certain amount of) violence is sometimes needed to make people comply with the law and respect curfews and the like.

    Also, your depiction of the Buffalo case as if the police merely "stepped over him" is incorrect, although media have done their best to frame it this way. In the video below, you can see in the 29th second (three seconds after the fall) that the cop goes down to check him out. Another cop (apparently in the lead) sort of pushes him away. That cop can directly be seen talking to his walkie talkie and shouting in the 35th second "Get a medic!". So much for the narrative "police did nothing to help".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFeewU0HhNE

    And on Brooks, apparently you don't know how tasers work. You can fire it only once, after which you need to install a new cartridge and it takes time to do so, time that clearly wasn't there in the video. So you have 1 taser out of order, and another one stolen by the thug. In other words, the guy who shot Brooks had no taser available at that point.

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