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Thread: Endgame: The End of the Death Penalty

  1. #1
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Mike's Avatar
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    Endgame: The End of the Death Penalty

    It appears the end times are approaching, the courts aren't saving it



    I know that many of you on this site still believe that the death penalty will make a resurgence if the Republicans just buck up and change.

    But it’s time we actually look and see that they have only barely maintained it’s use. Grandstanding on the issue seems to be its only purpose now.

    I still see many of you hold the hope that we are just right around the corner on some great resurgence.

    I see many members pointing to Nebraska reinstating then executing a single man who was trying to die for 20 years as our great shining hope.

    That was 3 years ago. Federal was a onetime deal. Texas had three whole executions last year. COVID was simply an out many states took as to not conduct executions. We’ve seen state legs continue to kick the can down the road on actual reforms. We’ve watched DA’s get dozens of guys off and get their sentences reduced due to sabotage.

    I see the death penalty dying in 3-4 years out of inaction and sabotage by so many people. Florida, Alabama and Ohio are just the latest states that have for no reason at all continued to handicap themselves and create problems for no reason. I’ve watched them go from doing multiple executions a year to maybe a single one. Yet that’s still cheered. Texas the bright shining star of the DP is now relying solely on Tarrant to bring out a majority of its warrants. One single county, in a state with 30 million people is still trying to carry out the law.

    The death penalty is a toothless tiger that has no backbone. It relies on too many election cycles to be effective at anything other then being a cash cow for the legal realm.

    What is going to happen to this site after the end? I would hope that at least we can track all these guys through corrections for the victims’ families at least. They deserve to have some resources on tracking these monsters.


    Does anybody else hold these views? Want to share your thoughts on this?
    "There is a point in the history of a society when it becomes so pathologically soft and tender that among other things it sides even with those who harm it, criminals, and does this quite seriously and honestly. Punishing somehow seems unfair to it, and it is certain that imagining ‘punishment’ and ‘being supposed to punish’ hurts it, arouses fear in it." Friedrich Nietzsche

  2. #2
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Neil's Avatar
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    I share them too. I don’t see its resurgence. 3 blanket commutations are on the horizon with Ohio, California, and Federal. Florida has become a joke with that disgusting decision not to stop retroactivity. You were right to be weary on DeSantis on being an ardent conservative. It won’t exist anymore really. In dark red territory where DR is packed like Florida and Alabama they don’t have executions anymore like you said. Other dark red states you mentioned in the past Mike and that I mentioned today like Louisiana and North Carolina don’t have sentencing problems or population problems it’s Political hacks in those states that could care less about the issue and it’s going on 15 years since North Carolina’s last execution and over 10 years since Louisiana had their last. Biden’s win all but sealed its fate. Trumps re-election would’ve given it more juice but Biden’s victory and the aging of Thomas and Alito has fast forwarded its expiration. Trumps 3 justices didn’t help stem the tide because those other two are aging.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Steven AB's Avatar
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    The two previous posts are very similar to those there:

    http://content.time.com/time/magazin...899574,00.html (1967: "By inches, the death penalty is dying in the U.S.")

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?i...&pg=3786,38609 (1972: "New laws unlikely on death penalty")

    I agree that the U.S. death penalty is in a similar cycle, but as the previous time its fate is not sealed.

    With the current Supreme Court the death penalty will remain an option for every state for at least a generation, as we can reasonably expect that both Thomas's and Alito's seat will become vacant during a Republican Presidency and Senate. They are respectively 72 and 70. That's not old for Supreme Court Justices.
    Last edited by Steven AB; 02-08-2021 at 09:48 AM.
    "If ever there were a case for a referendum, this is one on which the people should be allowed to express their own views and not irresponsible votes in the House of Commons." — Winston Churchill, on the death penalty

    The self-styled "Death Penalty Information Center" is financed by the oligarchic European Union. — The Daily Signal

  4. #4
    Senior Member CnCP Addict johncocacola's Avatar
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    Politics is never right or wrong, it’s just consistent with the times. The death penalty is no exception.

    The low crimes rates over the past decade and George Floyd killing, to name a few examples were a spark for criminal justice reform, including backing away from the death penalty.

    The sky high crime rates of the 1990s and the Polly Klaas kidnapping and murder, to name a few examples were a spark for tougher crime laws, including expanding the death penalty.

  5. #5
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Neil's Avatar
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    Black Lives Matter sparked that fuel in the second half the 2010s against it. Demographics are too of concern. That’s why Harris County the former tough on crime death penalty capital of the country went from numerous tough on Crime DAs to Kim Ogg. That county went from a predominantly white county through a strong period of its history to a very diverse county today. Virginia is the same deal. Virginia was a predominantly white southern state up until the mid 2000s until the DC suburbs diversified and that changed it from a predominantly southern state to a mid Atlantic one.

  6. #6
    Senior Member CnCP Addict johncocacola's Avatar
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    It’s not just states/counties that are shifting blue (Georgia, Arizona, Virginia, Harris County TX), places that will not be shifting blue anytime soon are also going with the trend. Take Florida and Ohio, both of those states will be fools gold for Democrats for the time being(unless something crazy happens) yet their death penalties have become all but symbolic.

    Just like how Democrats were forced to support the death penalty in the 80s and 90s when they needed to, Republicans now have to support criminal justice reform. Whether it’s right or wrong, it’s consistent with the time.

  7. #7
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Neil's Avatar
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    I have a theory on Ohio and how DeWine’s governed it especially during the lockdowns it’s not entirely surprising. Florida I agree it’s just a wasteland. Ohio is centered around DeWine and if you’ve looked throughout his history he has never been an ardent conservative.

    While he crafted the Death Penalty law there and supported the law it was always going to be a matter of time before he backed off his support of the death penalty. If he’s primaried out half the battle is over but like I said yesterday the other factor is the legislature there in particular the state house.
    Last edited by Neil; 02-08-2021 at 11:50 AM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member CnCP Addict johncocacola's Avatar
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    Like most politicians, DeWine did what he needed to do to get elected. He had an F rating from the NRA as a senator but changed his position to win the Ohio AG race in 2010 for example.

    Same thing with Dianne Feinstein running as a supporter of the death penalty in 1990 for governor, despite opposing it in the 60s, only to change her position back in her race against Kevin De Leon.

    By all accounts, Bill Clinton was/is personally opposed to the death penalty but presided over Ricky Rector’s during his 1992 campaign to defuse another Willie Horton like ad, because he had to do so to win.

    I could go on with examples. Bottom line, with drugs near impossible to obtain and public opinion dropping, there’s no incentive for politicians to tout support of the death penalty or maintain it.

  9. #9
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Neil's Avatar
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    There are things on here that I’m glad I was proven wrong on when I was pessimistic about certain capital punishment events that might’ve happened. Newsoms pick being an extreme liberal pick that would’ve been like the Bird Court. His pick is very old and he’s upheld capital punishment cases. However, there are others things that I and others have pointed out that are still very likely.

    Newsom granting blanket commutations, DeWine ordering blanket commutations, and Biden ordering blanket commutations. That essentially will reduce death row to ashes and we can’t wait 20 years later for another execution from those jurisdictions because we don’t have time demographically to keep Republicans in power unless we get a handle on immigration and politicians from both parties don’t care about immigration.

    Democrats want it due to power and votes and Republicans want it for cheap labor. Regardless of all the debating it’s done with in this country and if we’re wrong on that I’ll be glad of course. My other issue that’s up there is Immigration. I want us to be a country of immigrants but of legal immigrants and assimilated ones.

    We have a huge immigration problem in this country and that’s not going to be solved no matter how many times Ken Paxton sues Joe Biden. We need an army of Ken Paxton’s to fight Biden.
    Last edited by Neil; 02-08-2021 at 02:31 PM.

  10. #10
    Administrator Moh's Avatar
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    At least in California, Governor Newsom couldn't totally clear out death row on his own. Article V, Section 8 of the California Constitution provides that "[s]ubject to application procedures provided by statute, the Governor, on conditions the Governor deems proper, may grant a reprieve, pardon, and commutation, after sentence, except in the case of impeachment. However, in the case of twice-convicted felons, the governor requires the approval of the state’s Supreme Court in order to grant a pardon or commutation."

    https://www.capitalclemency.org/stat...on/california/

    So, I suppose more than a few murderers on California's death have been twice convicted of felonies and could only have their sentences commuted with the acquiescence of the California Supreme Court which, unfortunately, could well agree to such commutations.

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