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Thread: Derek Chauvin Sentenced to 22 Years and 6 Months in 2020 MN Death of George Floyd

  1. #21
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Mike's Avatar
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    Kangaroo Jury as expected

    Derek Chauvin juror who attended pre-trial BLM rally wearing a 'Get Your Knee Off Our Necks' T-shirt - despite swearing he never went to any George Floyd protests - may have risked the verdict, say experts

    By ARIEL ZILBER
    DAILYMAIL.COM and THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

    One of the jurors who convicted Derek Chauvin in the murder of George Floyd on Monday defended his participation in a protest last summer in Washington, DC, following online speculation about his motives for serving on the jury and whether it might be grounds for appeal.

    A photo, posted on social media, shows Brandon Mitchell attending the August 28 event to commemorate Martin Luther King Jr's 'I Have a Dream' speech during the 1963 March on Washington.

    Floyd's brother and sister, Philonise and Bridgett Floyd, and relatives of others who have been shot by police addressed the crowd.

    That photo recently recirculated online, the Star Tribune reported.

    It shows Mitchell, a high school basketball coach, standing with two cousins and wearing a T-shirt with a picture of King and the words, 'GET YOUR KNEE OFF OUR NECKS' and 'BLM,' for Black Lives Matter.

    Mitchell has defended his participation in the event, saying it was not explicitly a protest against police or a commemoration for George Floyd.

    Chauvin knelt on Floyd's neck for 9 minutes, 29 seconds last May as Floyd said repeatedly that he couldn't breathe.

    Mitchell and Chauvin's attorney, Eric Nelson, have not returned messages from DailyMail.com seeking comment.

    Mitchell, 31, acknowledged being at the event and that his uncle posted the photo, but said he doesn't recall wearing or owning the shirt.

    Mitchell was one of 12 jurors who convicted Chauvin of second- and third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter.

    Mitchell, the first juror to go public, spoke to several media outlets last week, including The Associated Press.

    'I'd never been to DC,' Mitchell said of his reasons for attending the event.

    'The opportunity to go to DC, the opportunity to be around thousands and thousands of black people; I just thought it was a good opportunity to be a part of something.'

    Mike Brandt, a Minneapolis defense attorney not involved in the case, told the AP the revelation alone wasn't nearly enough to overturn Chauvin's conviction, but it could be combined with other issues - the announcement of a massive civil settlement to Floyd's family during jury selection, the shooting of Daunte Wright, the judge's refusal to move the trial - in an appeal to say Chauvin was denied a fair trial.

    Ted Sampsell-Jones, a professor at the Mitchell Hamline School of Law, told the AP that the photo of Mitchell was 'evidence that Chauvin can point to in order to establish that his right to an impartial jury was denied.'

    He added: 'Speaking frankly, Chauvin did not have a fully impartial jury in the sense we usually give criminal defendants. That wasn't the fault of the judge or the prosecutors, it was simply a function of the incredible publicity and public pressure' surrounding the trial.

    Mitchell said he answered 'no' to two questions about demonstrations on the questionnaire sent out before jury selection.

    The first question asked: 'Did you, or someone close to you, participate in any of the demonstrations or marches against police brutality that took place in Minneapolis after George Floyd's death?'

    The second asked: 'Other than what you have already described above, have you, or anyone close to you, participated in protests about police use of force or police brutality?'

    Mitchell told Nelson during jury selection that he had a 'very favorable' opinion of Black Lives Matter, that he knew some police officers at his gym who are 'great guys,' and that he felt neutral about Blue Lives Matter, a pro-police group.

    He also said he had watched clips of bystander video of Floyd being pinned and had wondered why three other officers at the scene didn´t intervene.

    He said he could be neutral at trial.

    Mitchell told the Star Tribune that last summer's protest was '100 per cent not' a march for Floyd.

    'It was directly related to MLK's March on Washington from the '60s ... The date of the March on Washington is the date ... It was literally called the anniversary of the March on Washington,' he said.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-protest.html
    "There is a point in the history of a society when it becomes so pathologically soft and tender that among other things it sides even with those who harm it, criminals, and does this quite seriously and honestly. Punishing somehow seems unfair to it, and it is certain that imagining ‘punishment’ and ‘being supposed to punish’ hurts it, arouses fear in it." Friedrich Nietzsche

  2. #22
    Administrator Moh's Avatar
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    'The opportunity to go to DC, the opportunity to be around thousands and thousands of black people; I just thought it was a good opportunity to be a part of something.'
    Just imagine the furor if a white juror hearing a murder case with a black defendant had said something similar about the opportunity to be around thousands of white people.

  3. #23
    Senior Member CnCP Legend JLR's Avatar
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    This claim is a bit of a stretch. Firstly he didnt attend a a George Floyd protest, he attended a MLK anniversary event. The t shirt suggests he had a possible level of bias but that's normal for jurors in every high profile murder case especially when its caught on video. It doesnt say "lock up chauvin" or "this man is guilty". It says "get your knee off our necks". Not an unusual viewpoint if you have seen the video. I wouldn't say that t shirt by itself shows any level of bias that would preclude him from deliberating fairly. An ideal juror would have no knowledge of the case whatsoever but good luck finding people 12 people on this planet who are not aware of this case let alone in Minneapolis.

    Here are three death penalty cases off the top of my head where the juror bias was stronger and have resulted/could result in an execution (bare in mind Chauvin will get no more than 20 years). All of these cases have been upheld.

    Andre Thomas was tried and sentenced to death for the murder of his white wife and children by a jury containing 3 jury members who were adamently opposed to interracial relationships. The prosecution at penalty phases made several comments about how jury members wouldn't want to see the likes of Thomas with his daughter.

    One of the jurors in the Leroy Hall trial was herself a Domestic abuse survivor and lied about it on the jury questionnaire.

    Thomas Porter was tried and sentenced to death for the murder of a police officer by a jury member who lied about his sibling being a police officer.

    Are these kangaroo juries as well? If they have a quarter of the jury believe that interracial marriage is abhorrent and against nature and have them try and sentence a black man accused of the murder of his white wife and children and then rule that it constitutes a fair trial, then I can't see the issue here.

  4. #24
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLR View Post
    Are these kangaroo juries as well? If they have a quarter of the jury believe that interracial marriage is abhorrent and against nature and have them try and sentence a black man accused of the murder of his white wife and children and then rule that it constitutes a fair trial, then I can't see the issue here.
    The fact that the juror already knew who he was and was wearing a shirt crying about this event is enough already, Chauvin is an innocent man and the prosecution will never attempt to find him a jury that will be fair in anyway.

    Those comparisons aren't Kangaroo, especially with Andre, more then 80% of people won't date outside of their race so I fail to see how you can find a fair jury with that line of thinking. I also wouldn't want a psycho who would go on to eat his own eyes around my daughters too, don't know about you.

    This is going to turn out to be OJ levels of juror bias and intimidation if any agency actually investigates this.
    "There is a point in the history of a society when it becomes so pathologically soft and tender that among other things it sides even with those who harm it, criminals, and does this quite seriously and honestly. Punishing somehow seems unfair to it, and it is certain that imagining ‘punishment’ and ‘being supposed to punish’ hurts it, arouses fear in it." Friedrich Nietzsche

  5. #25
    Senior Member CnCP Legend JLR's Avatar
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    As I have previously said, find me 12 potential jurors in America who haven't heard of this case. It's completely normal for a jury member to have some sympathy for the victim. Do you think the jurors didnt know who Martin Richards was before the Boston Bomber trial?

    Chauvin is so clearly innocent that he initially agreed to plead guilty to third degree murder before Barr dismissed the agreement. He kept his knee on George Floyd's neck for several minutes AFTER they had already determined he didn't have a pulse and was unconscious. Multiple experts testified that Chauvin's actions caused Floyd's death. The defence expert on the use of force was the same guy who stated that Jason Van Dyke was not using excessive force when he shot Laquan McDonald in the back 16 times. The head of Minneapolis police came out and said this is not how we train officers and it's a textbook excessive force case. Patrick Lynch of the NYCPBA said that it was murder. It's so clear cut that the guy trying to get Daniel Pantaleo his job back, thought chauvin went too far. I can respect someone arguing that Chauvin didnt have a fair trial but the notion that he is completely innocent is total nonsense.

    80 percent of people do not believe that interracial marriage is abhorrant lol. The fact that most people are currently dating someone of the same ethnicity doesnt mean that they wouldn't date someone with a different ethnicity.You are not an idiot Mike, you know there is a difference between someone not necessarily being attracted to someone of a different race and a person believing interracial relationships to be a "crime against nature" and "morally wrong". Obviously I wouldn't want a murderer around my daughter, no one is saying that so why would you even need to bring that up in a closing argument at a penalty phase where you asking a jury to either a sentence a man to life in prison or the death penalty. Your not asking the jury to determine whether this guy is ready to start dating again. It's an an obvious attempt to try and incite the jury prejudices against interracial marriage.
    Last edited by JLR; 05-04-2021 at 10:30 AM.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Frequent Poster schmutz's Avatar
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    All the jury had to find was that Chauvin committed third-degree assault and that assault contributed in some way to Floyd's death for a conviction on second-degree felony murder. It is possible only in Minnesota and perhaps three other state at most to get such a conviction as in most states the merger doctrine is applied to as to preclude a lesser included charge that involves the act of murder from serving as the predicate felony.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Fact's Avatar
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    There has been crickets about the merger doctrine from the criminal defense people, who have been trying to change that rule for decades.

    Under the common law definition of felony murder, it's only available for burglary, arson, robbery, rape, and kidnapping.

  8. #28
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLR View Post
    As I have previously said, find me 12 potential jurors in America who haven't heard of this case. It's completely normal for a jury member to have some sympathy for the victim. Do you think the jurors didnt know who Martin Richards was before the Boston Bomber trial?

    Chauvin is so clearly innocent that he initially agreed to plead guilty to third degree murder before Barr dismissed the agreement.
    Number one, I don't know who Martin Richards is and I orbited that bombing as much as I could. I'm someone who pays attention to this stuff too.

    Of course he would attempt a plea deal here he knows what the verdict would have been anyway no matter what evidence was presented, because he won't get a fair trial.

    It's not difficult to find people who don't pay attention to the news. The fact that the first kangaroo jury only had a single senior citizen on it, and the rest of the jurors were mostly millennials tells me they didn't try at all to find people who would've been unbiased.

    You can look at dating app interaction to prove my point that people will lie if you ask them about dating a different race. That's not a negative and there is no way to sort that out. Of course almost always the black perps will claim everything and anything is racial discriminatory in someway. Which is why I think race related appeals should be completely outlawed and treated as malicious.

    The whole defense of Chauvin was that Floyd was already a dead man which he was, a normal person would've of had no issue but one's whose heart can't handle the copious decades of abuse and neglect given to it would of died from the excitement. In my opinion at a stretch you could get an assault charge out of this but since the state won't actually give him a fair trial this won't be the case.

    This whole situation could've been avoided but it wasn't. Floyd isn't a victim, the 50 people who died and the thousands who were victimized by his supporters are victims and will never get the justice they deserve. I'm not talking about this anymore, Floyd isn't worth anymore of my time.
    Last edited by Mike; 05-04-2021 at 07:40 PM.
    "There is a point in the history of a society when it becomes so pathologically soft and tender that among other things it sides even with those who harm it, criminals, and does this quite seriously and honestly. Punishing somehow seems unfair to it, and it is certain that imagining ‘punishment’ and ‘being supposed to punish’ hurts it, arouses fear in it." Friedrich Nietzsche

  9. #29
    Senior Member Frequent Poster schmutz's Avatar
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    Floyd is a culpable victim. He should have been more cooperative. He should have taken better care of his health. Still, however, it falls upon the MPD to bring him in alive so that a jury can decide if he is to go back to jail a fourth time. Once even the smallest unlawful use of force could be established, his ill health is irrelevant as a matter of law. Eggshell doctrine applies to criminal as well as civil cases.

    BTW, Martin Richard was the eight-year-old boy killed by the bomb. His name is unavoidable on Boston radio.

  10. #30
    Senior Member CnCP Legend JLR's Avatar
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    I meant to say Martin Richard who was the 8 year old who was killed in the attack. Pretty much everyone in Boston would of been aware of who he was before the trial.

    He attempted to reach a plea deal because the evidence clearly showed he was guilty. There are other cases with similar level of public reaction where the defendant asserted his innocence and went to trial. Chauvin knew the game was up because he was guilty and the evidence showed that, not because the public thought he was guilty.

    Most senior citizens I know are more aware of the news than most people my age. The defence also has a hand in picking the jury. Unless you were a complete Hermit living a life of complete solitude with no access to any form of media then you would of had some knowledge of the case. I would say that would be true in the UK let alone in America. Finding a totally unbiased jury would be absolutely impossible.

    Whatever your point is about dating apps is, it doesn't change the fact that the belief that interracial relationships are abhorrant and an act against nature would be an extremely radical minority viewpoint in 2005 let alone today. The logic saying that all black people are automatically going to claim racial discrimination and so all claims should be barred is ludicrous. Let's go step one further. All criminal defendants (including Chauvin) are going to claim to that they had unfair trials so let's just ban all appeals claiming that. Forget the actual merit of each individual appeal. If everyone says it then everyone must be wrong. If an article came out tomorrow where it showed that a juror in the Floyd case was somehow prejudiced against white people, I imagine you would be fully in favor of Chauvin filing an appeal based on racial discrimination.

    Aaron has already stated this point better earlier on in much more detail but the vulnerabilities of the victim do not absolve the perpetrator of responsibility. If someone has a thin skull and I punch them and they fall over, crack their head and die then I am still responsible for the death. Same logic applies with Chauvin. Regardless multiple prosecution experts testified that Chauvins actions were the primary cause of death and George Floyd would not of died otherwise.

    Floyd is a victim ( of at least assault by your own admission), the people whose died in the aftermath and whose businesses were attacked are also victims. Both of these things can be true.

    I agree with you on one thing. This entire situation could of been avoided. All Chauvin had to do was take his Knee of George Floyd's neck.

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