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Thread: Why Catholics such as Justice Antonin Scalia have been unconvinced by the recent papal opposition to the death penalty?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Steven AB's Avatar
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    Why Catholics such as Justice Antonin Scalia have been unconvinced by the recent papal opposition to the death penalty?

    The late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia was a Catholic. One of his sons is a Catholic priest. Nevertheless, he believed that the recent popes were not credible when they said that God changed His mind on the death penalty in 1995: "In any case, I have given this new position, if it is indeed that, thoughtful and respectful consideration, and have rejected it.", "The Church’s current position owes more to Napoleon, Hegel and Freud than to St. Thomas and St. Augustine".

    https://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionand...penalty/16044/

    https://www.pewforum.org/2002/02/04/...l-not-immoral/

    Pope Francis also abolished life sentences from Vatican law, even with possibility of parole, on the grounds that they are "a form of death penalty in disguise".

    Now the maximum penalty in Vatican City is 35 years. Under such a law, Charles Manson would have been freed in 2004 or sooner if paroled. Nazi genociders arrested in 1944 would have been freed in 1979 or sooner if paroled.

    In 2017, Professors Edward Feser and Joseph Bessette published By Man Shall His Blood Be Shed: A Catholic Defense of Capital Punishment, showing, among other things, that the death penalty sanctifies the value of human life — of the victims.

    https://www.amazon.com/Man-Shall-His.../dp/1621641260

    There are other issues than crime on which the recent papacies are unreliable, most obviously immigration.

    Very few people oppose both the death penalty and abortion. They must be roughly 5% of all voters. Everyone can have peculiar opinions, but demographically this positioning is a dead-end.

    It is indeed quite laughable to see people supporting abortion for eight-month fetuses invoking the "pro-life" rallying cry to command to their opponents to be against the death penalty for convicted murderers (or to be against Second Amendment rights).

    And as sincere as can be one opposition to abortion, one must also take into account that electorally at the national level, that's not a winning theme with independent voters, emphasizing the need for Republicans to campaign on other issues, which include crime and the death penalty.

    http://www.cncpunishment.com/forums/...998#post139998

    http://www.cncpunishment.com/forums/...l=1#post142434
    Last edited by Steven AB; 07-03-2023 at 09:20 AM.
    "If ever there were a case for a referendum, this is one on which the people should be allowed to express their own views and not irresponsible votes in the House of Commons." — Winston Churchill, on the death penalty

    The self-styled "Death Penalty Information Center" is financed by the oligarchic European Union. — The Daily Signal

  2. #2
    Administrator Aaron's Avatar
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    I'm skeptical about electing Catholics to public office tbh. How do we know they won't put their loyalty to the Vatican and Pope above loyalty to the USA? Foreign, global, and centralized religions should be treated with caution if their provenance is not American.
    Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next products.

    "They will hurt you. They will hurt your grandma, these people. The root cause of this is there's no discipline in the homes, they don't go to school, you know, they live off the government, no personal accountability, and they just beat people up for no reason, and it's disgusting." - Former Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters

  3. #3
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven AB View Post
    The late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia was a Catholic. One of his sons is a Catholic priest. Nevertheless, he believed that the recent popes were not credible
    You can use this line for literally every single issue over the past 2000 years. The church itself has constantly progressed and regressed on so many issues that at this point you can point at anything and the church had 50 different stances on it over the years. Modernity today is just another phase it's going through.
    Last edited by Mike; 10-04-2021 at 12:32 PM.
    "There is a point in the history of a society when it becomes so pathologically soft and tender that among other things it sides even with those who harm it, criminals, and does this quite seriously and honestly. Punishing somehow seems unfair to it, and it is certain that imagining ‘punishment’ and ‘being supposed to punish’ hurts it, arouses fear in it." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Senior Member Frequent Poster Steven AB's Avatar
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    There are a lot of important stances on which the Catholic Church has never varied, such as that a marriage shall be between a man and a woman, and that the priest celebrating their union shall be a man.

    Any subject on which they backtrack as on capital punishment and bow to modernism weaken both their credibility as ministers of God and their commitment to other beliefs. If they can do such a 180-degree turn on the ultimate penalty, for when a transsexual pope?
    Last edited by Steven AB; 10-18-2021 at 04:30 PM.
    "If ever there were a case for a referendum, this is one on which the people should be allowed to express their own views and not irresponsible votes in the House of Commons." — Winston Churchill, on the death penalty

    The self-styled "Death Penalty Information Center" is financed by the oligarchic European Union. — The Daily Signal

  5. #5
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Mike's Avatar
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    The church has varied on marriage multiple times. Charlemagne for instance who was crowned the first Holy Roman emperor had multiple "wives" they just called them concubines The church eventually changed their stance as they do on everything.
    "There is a point in the history of a society when it becomes so pathologically soft and tender that among other things it sides even with those who harm it, criminals, and does this quite seriously and honestly. Punishing somehow seems unfair to it, and it is certain that imagining ‘punishment’ and ‘being supposed to punish’ hurts it, arouses fear in it." Friedrich Nietzsche

  6. #6
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Steven AB's Avatar
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    The Catholic Church has never changed its stance on the things indicated in my prior post.

    And Frankish Emperor Charlemagne had only one legitimate wife at a time. Each time he remarried only after the prior union was annulled or his prior wife had died.
    Last edited by Steven AB; 11-25-2021 at 03:00 PM.
    "If ever there were a case for a referendum, this is one on which the people should be allowed to express their own views and not irresponsible votes in the House of Commons." — Winston Churchill, on the death penalty

    The self-styled "Death Penalty Information Center" is financed by the oligarchic European Union. — The Daily Signal

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