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Thread: Ohio Capital Punishment News

  1. #301
    Senior Member Frequent Poster schmutz's Avatar
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    Pfizer would get fined more than their Ohio profits are worth if their sodium pentothal found its way into an execution.

  2. #302
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Steven AB's Avatar
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    The DOJ appeal to the Supreme Court this month a few times before the scheduled executions suggests that the federal government is currently able to acquire execution drugs.

    Thus, it could and should decide to sell them to states needing them, notably Arizona, Ohio, and Oklahoma.

    In 2014, Missouri Democratic attorney general Chris Koster proposed that the state fund its own laboratory to make the drugs.

    Any state doing that would indeed offset the costs of such policy by also selling the drugs to other states and to the federal government.

    Even a single state doing that would be far more efficient for the entire country, and the recent DOJ opinion sustaining that the FDA lacks jurisdiction over this matter can only help.

    That would also avoid having to hide from where come the drugs, and thus prevent any lawsuit over "transparency", or by a manufacturer who didn't contemplated such use of its drugs.

    Oklahoma would have resumed executions since a long time if it had chosen this way instead of trying to invent a new method that would be a world first.

    (The drugs could also be made by the FDA, but such policy could be reversed by a later administration, an event less likely to happen in Missouri, Oklahoma, or another red state.)
    Last edited by Steven AB; 12-13-2019 at 04:50 PM.

  3. #303
    Moderator Ryan's Avatar
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    I'm with Aaron on this one. Ohio or indeed Gov. DeWine will continuously delay executions or do away with it completely. DeWine is stubborn into not choosing a different method of execution such as Nitrogen gas or firing squad. Easily implemented to other states such as Alabama and Oklahoma. Ohio could easily acquire Etomidate or Pentobarbital but choose not to.

    The question is, will Ohio execute again?
    "How do you get drunk on death row?" - Werner Herzog

    "When we get fruit, we get the juice and water. I ferment for a week! It tastes like chalk, it's nasty" - Blaine Keith Milam #999558 Texas Death Row

  4. #304
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Steven AB's Avatar
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    Nitrogen and shooting are not at all easily implemented. It's been five years since Oklahoma is struggling for nitrogen which has never been used for any execution in the world. Shooting apply only in Utah to inmates who are unable to challenge its legality under Stewart v. LaGrand because they accepted it.

    Assuming (and I agree that may be true, but not sure) that DeWine is disingenuously delaying executions, at least he must have a credible pretext for that, and this pretext will evaporate if William Barr announce that, now, the federal government will become an execution drug seller for any state on request. Or if a public laboratory is established for that purpose by any state or the federal government.
    Last edited by Steven AB; 12-13-2019 at 05:30 PM.

  5. #305
    Senior Member Frequent Poster schmutz's Avatar
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    DeWine can not rewrite the execution protocol himself. He is free to let the prison director slow-walk it to her heart's content, and at that she may still need legislative approval to switch to one-drug/pentobarbital.

  6. #306
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Steven AB's Avatar
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    I emphasize that my point doesn't apply only to Ohio. Have execution drugs furnished by the federal government, or by a state public laboratory, and more states will resume executions, whether their previous reasons for not doing so were sincere or not.

    With respect to Ohio:

    There are states where the protocol is mandated by statute (and that's wrong) but Ohio is not one of them.

    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2949.22v1

    Ohio has already changed its execution protocol four times in 11 years

    https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executi...tion-protocols

    and the prison director is not an independent agency for which the governor is unaccountable.
    Last edited by Steven AB; 12-13-2019 at 08:50 PM.

  7. #307
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Mike's Avatar
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    The problem isn't non access to drugs. The problem is that they have a governor willing to cop out at the earliest notice and claims to want a new method. Yet he and the other high ranking people shoot down new methods/ proposals. As he said he only wants a method that will be approved by the courts which doesn't make sense.

    There is no point in even trying to get a new method that is an automatic 1-2 years of debate followed by a 2 years of writing a protocol plus 1-2 years to figure out and obtain the materials for said protocol, plus 3-4 years of legal appeals alone. Then you have to include a judge setting dates and since this is Ohio that's six years away so, DeWine is kicking the problem down into the next governors lap. Having the feds make the drugs would have to be authorized by congress which isn't happening. Even if it somehow did happen you would again have to go through years of legal appeals and presidential elections , who would shut it before even a single dose was manufactured.

    Once a lab is found out they are named and shamed, with the lugenpresse digging through their client list and demanding they sever ties with said supplier. So you can't have the company public unless it's one specific goal is to make the drugs. But again they will just harass the workers and notified the world of them. So unless you get the set up GA and Texas seem to have, you won't have a steady access to drugs and realistically lethal injection isn't going to be functionally replaced in any state that doesn't actually use alt methods.
    Last edited by Mike; 12-14-2019 at 12:14 AM.
    "There is a point in the history of a society when it becomes so pathologically soft and tender that among other things it sides even with those who harm it, criminals, and does this quite seriously and honestly. Punishing somehow seems unfair to it, and it is certain that imagining ‘punishment’ and ‘being supposed to punish’ hurts it, arouses fear in it." Friedrich Nietzsche

  8. #308
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Steven AB's Avatar
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    I'm wondering if I'm not discussing with death penalty-abolitionists.

    Even if you doubt of the remedies I propose, at least you should agree that they should be tried.

    Access to the drugs is the problem because it is the only credible pretext DeWine has to delay executions. Ohio recent history indicates that changing the execution protocol with court approval is not insurmountable, and the U.S. Supreme Court has recently issued a very favorable decision about that, Bucklew v. Precythe, and may move even more in that direction in the future.

    Indeed, the protocol (in all states) should not fix the execution drugs, but simply give a list of allowed drugs, so you can change it/them at each execution depending of what you have in stock.

    That is what the current Ohio protocol already provides, so you are all wrong to claim that a time-consuming administrative process is necessary.

    https://files.deathpenaltyinfo.org/l...10.07.2016.pdf (page 2)

    And there are states where the execution hiatus is really caused by the drug shortage and not by bad faith of executive officials. Oklahoma, for example, which has 19 inmates having exhausted the appeal process as of April 2019.

    Congressional approval is not needed to sell to the states part of the drugs the DOJ recently acquired for its own executions we don't even know how.

    And even if legislative approval is required for a public laboratory, you can well get it from the Oklahoma legislature, if simply the idea were brought to their attention...

    If Texas --- as yourself Mike point out --- is able to acquire drugs from a private compounding pharmacy, it is even more possible to have a public laboratory since its members would have their anonymity protected by statute (as for executioners) and would not worry about business since they would be public servants receiving a fixed pay.

    The public laboratory would be located in a jail in an area inaccessible to inmates, and its costs would be offset by selling the drugs to the other states needing them and to the federal government.

    I'm not opposed to also try to use previous methods (maybe it’s the real reason you are all castigating lethal injection), but that means that statutes should assign to the state, not the inmate, the selection of the method, so it is the most readily implementable method which is selected for each execution.
    Last edited by Steven AB; 12-14-2019 at 03:01 PM.

  9. #309
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Mike's Avatar
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    Oklahoma stopped because of the complete failures of Lockett, Warner and Glossip. Three times where they had a major screw up. They gave up on lethal injection even though they had a good supplier of drugs that did the same thing as their actual protocol. So they changed it to nitrogen with no way of implementing it. It's been 3 years and they still haven't even come up with a protocol yet. Alabama which seems to be actually trying since stupidly changing the method on a whim is going to build a device that can deliver the nitrogen. We can see that they are trying,

    Ohio had drugs and a good protocol in 2017, their governors started to intervene and started issuing stays. Again the reason they stopped wasn't because of a supply problem, it was because a singe magistrate judge who is well known for his bias against the death penalty whined about their most recent protocol. He was overruled by the higher courts but still DeWine ignoring the higher court declared that the drug combo isn't approved by the courts.

    The Death Penalty has at most 10 years left, states don't have the time to dive into new methods at this point. Again the inmates can individually appeal every single drug and combo used, every time you change it. That's another appeal cycle on the drug with a lower court judge and the circuit panel almost always saying the drugs are unconstitutional just to be overruled by the higher courts.

    The states claiming they have a "drug shortage" are using it as an excuse to not change the laws. SC,NC,MS,LA supposedly deep red states, still haven't changed their laws on anonymity and changing their protocols to reflect the current drug usage. States that are serious such as Florida changed their protocol and anonymity within a year.
    Last edited by Mike; 12-14-2019 at 03:22 PM.
    "There is a point in the history of a society when it becomes so pathologically soft and tender that among other things it sides even with those who harm it, criminals, and does this quite seriously and honestly. Punishing somehow seems unfair to it, and it is certain that imagining ‘punishment’ and ‘being supposed to punish’ hurts it, arouses fear in it." Friedrich Nietzsche

  10. #310
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Steven AB's Avatar
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    "The Death Penalty has at most 10 years left" that's what death penalty-abolitionists are saying for 50 years.

    The death penalty situation was far worse in the 1965-1980 period and nonetheless it reborn from its ashes.

    Only the U.S. Supreme Court can end it nationally, and for the first time we have a majority of the justices who are linked to the Federalist Society.

    It is not unusual for states to have executions hiatus whether it is because of bad faith or real impossibility.

    Arkansas, for example, has no execution for 12 years (2005-2017) and nonetheless it scheduled a 10-day execution spree of 8 inmates, and carried out 4 of them.

    But at least (Mike and all others), wouldn't you support trying the remedies I propose (sharing drugs between states and fed, have a public laboratory, have multiple methods allowed by statutes and protocols), or just you want to do nothing at all?

    For death penalty supporters it's well trying and win.
    Last edited by Steven AB; 12-15-2019 at 03:42 PM.

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