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Thread: Carlos De Luna - Texas Execution - December 7, 1989

  1. #11
    Administrator Heidi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek View Post
    The sole eyewitness in this case identified him based on the fact that he was a hispanic male.
    Eyewitness testimony formed the bedrock of the case against him. Now, that testimony is perhaps most contested aspect of his conviction.

    Cops brought De Luna back to the Shamrock. A customer filling his tank before the murder told police that De Luna was the man he saw putting a knife in his pocket outside the store. Another customer who rushed to the store's entrance when he heard Lopez struggling identified De Luna as the man who emerged. A married couple saw a man running a few blocks away and later identified De Luna in police photos shown to them.
    A lot of media outlets covered this breaking revelation. My quote was taken from The Huffington Post article. To me it was the least biased.
    An uninformed opponent is a dangerous opponent.

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  2. #12
    Senior Member Frequent Poster PATRICK5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek View Post
    The sole eyewitness in this case identified him based on the fact that he was a hispanic male.

    Who says? An abolitionist? Do they provide the documents, transcripts, briefs to back this up? When you are asked to identify a suspect, are we now suppose to not mention the race? They chose these cases because they are old, because the briefs and unpublished opinions are not on the internet. It's just another scam, one of many, to fool the public. I'm sick of it. If they have the case record, they better publish the entire damn thing, otherwise, I call bullshite.

    With the CA referendum coming up, we are going to be bombarded with these deceptive articles. Get prepared...
    Last edited by PATRICK5; 05-15-2012 at 08:35 PM.
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  3. #13
    Derek
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heidi View Post
    A lot of media outlets covered this breaking revelation. My quote was taken from The Huffington Post article. To me it was the least biased.
    Sorry for my very bad oversight on that.

    Who says? An abolitionist? Do they provide the documents, transcripts, briefs to back this up? When you are asked to identify a suspect, are we now suppose to not mention the race? They chose these cases because they are old, because the briefs and unpublished opinions are not on the internet. It's just another scam, one of many, to fool the public. I'm sick of it. If they have the case record, they better publish the entire damn thing, otherwise, I call bullshite.

    With the CA referendum coming up, we are going to be bombarded with these deceptive articles. Get prepared...
    Doesn't sound very pleasant. A law professor has some merit to report on his "findings". The numerous articles/reports by the anti-DP community sound like they'll be unbearable to even glance at, at least based on what I've witnessed. Sorry, still getting used to the numerous topics regarding capital punishment.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Frequent Poster PATRICK5's Avatar
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    His "findings" have no merit. He's an abolitionist propagandist. It's a coordinated p.r. campaign against the death penalty.

    The numerous articles/reports by the anti-DP community sound like they'll be unbearable to even glance at, at least based on what I've witnessed.
    Yes, they will be -- while others more naive will eat them up. Again, why doesn't he publish the entire transcripts? They just want to cherry pick and paraphrase in order to misrepresent the evidence. That's what they do.

    You seem to think that because this guy is a law prof he's something special. He's not. They get these grants and make their students do the work. He's part of a network of people against capital punishment. He makes no legal argument with citations to the record or the law. It's just his unbacked with any authority opinion. That journalism prof. from Northwestern Proteuss did the same thing. One student I remember had misgivings about what she was being asked to do. Another went on to be caught lying and then later when she got a real job, getting fired for plagiarism. Proteuss resigned before they fired him for ethical misconduct. These people all believe that they are on a mission from God and therefore they are allowed to lie.
    Last edited by PATRICK5; 05-15-2012 at 09:13 PM.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Member Diggler's Avatar
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    Was an innocent man executed?

    The Guardian (UK liberal newspaper) piece gives an easy overview.
    The Columbia Law Review is a collection of Youtube videos.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...cent-man-death

    http://www3.law.columbia.edu/hrlr/ltc/

    My view is that the person concerned was failed by the system. The police for not being diligent with the evidence. The defence team for not ripping them a new a******e for their failures. Also the search for the namesake should have been commissioned by the defence while the trail was warm.

    Open for discussion. Pro or anti.

    Diggler
    Diggling for all he is worth

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  6. #16
    Administrator Michael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek View Post
    I presume the last "poster boy" you're talking about is Beunka Adams? Let me make it clear, I determine my opinion on innocence or guilt on a case-by-case basis. I'm not one of those "antis" that gives this forum such flack so don't group me with them, nor did I disagree with Adams's guilt. Besides, last time I checked, you are allowed to write up a report stating your stance/opinion on an issue. The Texas judicial system, the American public and anyone else who reacts in some way to this can respond as they see fit. Let me ask, if a law professor wrote up a report on why he/she thinks that a suspect who was found not guilty but evidence leads him/her to believe that the same suspect committed that offense, would you have an issue with that?
    I thought about Roger Keith Coleman.

    Also I think that everyone can write what he/she wants, but that doesen´t make this writing better than a court-history from trial over appeals until a carried out sentence.
    No murder can be so cruel that there are not still useful imbeciles who do gloss over the murderer and apologize.

  7. #17
    Passed away. Rob's Avatar
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    I agree. Anyone who wants to claim that a convicted person is innocent can easily make a case for such. All they have to do is highlight the facts they want to highlight and disregard a mountain of evidence which suggests the convicted was in fact guilty. I haven't dug into the Deluna case that deeply. Frankly, I'm not that interested. But most people who have looked at it objectively say he was *probably* guilty. For sure he wasn't the nice, mild-mannered individual he was shown to be in a documentary. I'm immediately suspect when an individual is painted as a saint, even though he was already a known criminal. The biggest question is whether or not there was enough evidence to properly convict him. Again, I can't answer that, but somehow I'm not losing any sleep over his execution.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Frequent Poster PATRICK5's Avatar
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    "We've provided as complete a set of information as we can about a pretty average case, to let the public make its own judgment."
    No, you haven't. You provided "information" such as: When prosecutors played the tape, the apprentice reporter realized they weren't messing around. They were "out for blood."14 "It was going to be a feather in someone's cap to be able to get the death penalty in this case."

    A complete set of information would have been the complete unedited trial record. Do they provide that? Of course not. It's an old anti trick.
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  9. #19
    Administrator Heidi's Avatar
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    Richard Dieter even said

    "We don't have a perfect case where can agree that we have an innocent person who's been executed, but by weight of this investigation, I think we can say this is as close as a person is going to come."
    and that isn't a definitive conclusion.
    An uninformed opponent is a dangerous opponent.

    "Y'all be makin shit up" ~ Markeith Loyd

  10. #20
    Administrator Moh's Avatar
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    Those closest to Carlos DeLuna case say Columbia Human Rights study doesn't raise new questions

    By Michelle Villarreal
    Corpus Christi Caller Times

    CORPUS CHRISTI — A study released Tuesday may have sparked debate about the death penalty but those closest to the case say researchers aren't raising new questions about the 1983 capital murder case and execution.

    The 400-page study, "Los Tocayos Carlos," in the Columbia Human Rights Law Review argues that Carlos DeLuna wrongfully was executed in 1989.

    DeLuna was convicted of fatally stabbing Wanda Lopez on Feb. 4, 1983, during a robbery of a Corpus Christi convenience store. He testified at his trial, claiming a man named Carlos Hernandez killed Lopez.

    The Columbia study asserts that Hernandez committed the crime and DeLuna was innocent.

    Paul Rivera, a Corpus Christi police investigator who transported DeLuna between city and county jails, said the study's researchers asked him years ago to reread the DeLuna case.

    Rivera said he took his time combing through the investigation reports and transcripts. In the end, he drew the same conclusion.

    "I know exactly what happened," he said. "DeLuna stabbed Wanda Lopez when she was on the phone and she was screaming for help."

    Rivera, who investigated more than 200 murders in Corpus Christi, said at least nine of those people were on death row and no one questioned his investigations or methods before DeLuna's case.

    DeLuna received the appropriate punishment, he said.

    The Columbia researchers are adamant about trying to abolish the death penalty, he said.

    "I don't know why these people are so vicious," he said.

    Nueces County District Attorney Mark Skurka joined the office in 1986 and, while he was not involved with DeLuna's case, he said the jury's conviction of DeLuna stands.

    Skurka would not comment on the Columbia report because he has not read it, but said researchers are arguing the same issues. There is no new evidence, he said.

    "Those people have already made up their mind, it doesn't matter what anyone says," he said. "They try to find these people and try to make them innocent, but they don't look at all the ones who are guilty as sin."

    In regards to the death penalty, Skurka said he will enforce the law. The death penalty is legal in Texas, but he said if the state abolished it tomorrow he would continue performing his job without it.

    "I've never given anyone the death penalty," he said. "It's the jurors, the 12 people hearing the case."

    When jurors are polled during the selection process, most say they are for it, Skurka said. But, he said in the past three years more people are troubled by the death penalty because of exonerations from DNA evidence that could lead to a possible mistake in a case.

    He said there is a viable alternative — life in prison without parole.

    That's an option Hector De Peña Jr. now prefers.

    De Peña, one of DeLuna's defense attorneys, said his opinion on the death penalty has changed over the years.

    He said the death penalty was a more frequent form of punishment when he was a prosecutor in the early 1970s, but after seeing mistakes made in those cases from DNA testing he realized that a population of people unjustly were executed.

    "You have a lot of people involved in prosecution that are just out to put notches on their gun," he said.

    He worked closely with the Columbia researchers and believes DeLuna was innocent.

    He said DeLuna and Hernandez robbed the convenience store the night Lopez was killed. DeLuna was in front of the counter with Hernandez when Hernandez leapt over the counter and stabbed Lopez.

    During DeLuna's trial, defense attorney James Lawrence presented him with a photo lineup and asked DeLuna to identify Hernandez. DeLuna wouldn't.

    Lawrence said he didn't believe DeLuna to be 100 percent innocent because of that. But De Peña. thinks DeLuna wouldn't identify Hernandez for safety reasons.

    "At the time, we still felt that DeLuna would get off," De Peña said, "and he didn't want to risk possibly getting hurt in the county jail or even killed on the street before getting released."

    http://www.caller.com/news/2012/may/...-say-columbia/

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