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Thread: Lezmond Charles Mitchell - Federal Execution - August 26, 2020

  1. #51
    Administrator Aaron's Avatar
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    As for this execution, to Hell with the Navajo and what they think. They're wrong, and no death penalty supporter should give a tinker's damn what they think here.

    Hell, let's spare every Catholic too while we're at it! Hell let's halt every execution since someone somewhere has some picayune issue with every single one.
    Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next products.

    "They will hurt you. They will hurt your grandma, these people. The root cause of this is there's no discipline in the homes, they don't go to school, you know, they live off the government, no personal accountability, and they just beat people up for no reason, and it's disgusting." - Former Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters

  2. #52
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Alfred's Avatar
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    I fully agree with Shep. Having different rights for different races within one country is apartheid.

    So we have these indians, who are free to roam the US, who by no means sit cosily in their wigwams with feathers in their hair, who use all the technology brought on by 'the whites', who I suppose benefit from modern health care etc., in other words who totally rely on the delights brought on by western society, and who are thus just like anyone else in society, but, who nevertheless, based on (some of their) genes are granted special rights.

    Enjoying legal preferential treatment because of your race does not constitute positive discrimination. It's discrimination against all those who do not share your genes and it's abhorrent.

  3. #53
    Administrator Aaron's Avatar
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    Thank you. It's nice to see a non-American comment correctly on this archaic peculiarity that has no longer has any justifiable bearing.
    Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next products.

    "They will hurt you. They will hurt your grandma, these people. The root cause of this is there's no discipline in the homes, they don't go to school, you know, they live off the government, no personal accountability, and they just beat people up for no reason, and it's disgusting." - Former Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters

  4. #54
    Senior Member Frequent Poster schmutz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfred View Post
    I fully agree with Shep. Having different rights for different races within one country is apartheid.

    So we have these indians, who are free to roam the US, who by no means sit cosily in their wigwams with feathers in their hair, who use all the technology brought on by 'the whites', who I suppose benefit from modern health care etc., in other words who totally rely on the delights brought on by western society, and who are thus just like anyone else in society, but, who nevertheless, based on (some of their) genes are granted special rights.

    Enjoying legal preferential treatment because of your race does not constitute positive discrimination. It's discrimination against all those who do not share your genes and it's abhorrent.
    It is not that they are granted special rights but that they never ceded them in the first place when they gave up much of their land. Recognition of tribal sovereignty over the reservation is how these unceded rights are made manifest.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Alfred's Avatar
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    Schmutz, it's not merely an issue of territory, because within these tribal territorities people are not treated the same, but they are treated differently based on their genetic make-up.

    If you want to have a country, you can't have different treatment based on genetics. If you really believe the tribes should govern themselves, then the only morally just solution would be to let them have independent nations in which all are governed by the same laws. I'm not an American but if I were I would probably not support that for a whole bunch of reasons.

    The fact that the indians never ceded their rights is not a very compelling argument imo. They were conquered and a state was erected of which they are now nationals. There is nothing unique about that. Europe is full of states that have regions that were conquered even more recently than the indians were and still they have to accept the same treatment as any other citizen of that particular country.
    Last edited by Alfred; 08-12-2020 at 08:48 AM.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Frequent Poster Shep3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schmutz View Post
    It is not that they are granted special rights but that they never ceded them in the first place when they gave up much of their land. Recognition of tribal sovereignty over the reservation is how these unceded rights are made manifest.
    No other western nation has this madness saying you agree with this idiotic system is like saying you support the ETA in Spain or the IRA in Belfast it’s dangerous and only perpetuates the suffering and lack of integration of native people. My great great grandmother left the creek reservation in Oklahoma back in the 1910’s because it was a dead in with no future she married had 10 kids and got a education in nursing something she’d never have gotten there at that time and yes I’ve visited it since and while not as bad as some place further west it is still impoverished with little options. The system doesn’t work and needs to be replaced by something that does.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Frequent Poster schmutz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfred View Post
    Schmutz, it's not merely an issue of territory, because within these tribal territorities people are not treated the same, but they are treated differently based on their genetic make-up.

    If you want to have a country, you can't have different treatment based on genetics. If you really believe the tribes should govern themselves, then the only morally just solution would be to let them have independent nations in which all are governed by the same laws. I'm not an American but if I were I would probably not support that for a whole bunch of reasons.

    The fact that the indians never ceded their rights is not a very compelling argument imo. They were conquered and a state was erected of which they are now nationals. There is nothing unique about that. Europe is full of states that have regions that were conquered even more recently than the indians were and still they have to accept the same treatment as any other citizen of that particular country.
    A number of European countries do have autonomous regions where the local population differs from that of the nation as a whole. Scottish law remains distinct from that of England and Wales. In most of the recent cases of conquest the question of treating minorities was mooted through ethnic cleansing, especially of Germans and Italians. In dealing with our own conquests, it was agreed to keep the tribes intact with jurisdiction over their own people within their allotted lands.

  8. #58
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Mastro Titta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shep3 View Post
    No other western nation has this madness saying you agree with this idiotic system is like saying you support the ETA in Spain or the IRA in Belfast it’s dangerous and only perpetuates the suffering and lack of integration of native people. My great great grandmother left the creek reservation in Oklahoma back in the 1910’s because it was a dead in with no future she married had 10 kids and got a education in nursing something she’d never have gotten there at that time and yes I’ve visited it since and while not as bad as some place further west it is still impoverished with little options. The system doesn’t work and needs to be replaced by something that does.
    Troubles in Ireland are a deeply different question. The nine counties do not consider themselves British, but only a part of Eire under foreign military occupation, and they do not recognize British authority over them at all, not only under certain circumstances like Navajos.
    Last edited by Mastro Titta; 08-12-2020 at 10:44 AM.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Frequent Poster schmutz's Avatar
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    The system is kludgy and could use a rework, but with both sides at the table. Until then we have what we've got, which includes a particular case that is rather anomalous involving a novel crime consisting of elements of two other previously recognized crimes needlessly federalized in a moral panic that never got added to the Major Crimes Act, despite both components in themselves listed. Just because a loophole exists to allow the seeking of a death sentence doesn't mean it always should be. We've had three perfectly fine executions in a row. Let's not break the streak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastro Titta View Post
    Troubles in Ireland are a deeply different question. The nine counties do not consider themselves British, but only a part of Eire under foreign military occupation, and they do not recognize British authority over them at all, not only under certain circumstances like Navajos.
    Now that the shipyards are gone I'm not sure the Irish really want Belfast unloaded on them anymore. The Troubles simmered down when the high-paying industrial jobs that undergirded the system of Protestant privilege decamped for Asia.

  10. #60
    Administrator Aaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schmutz View Post
    The system is kludgy and could use a rework, but with both sides at the table. Until then we have what we've got, which includes a particular case that is rather anomalous involving a novel crime consisting of elements of two other previously recognized crimes needlessly federalized in a moral panic that never got added to the Major Crimes Act, despite both components in themselves listed. Just because a loophole exists to allow the seeking of a death sentence doesn't mean it always should be. We've had three perfectly fine executions in a row. Let's not break the streak.
    I'm surprised you don't have any issues with Purkey given his dementia claims.

    That aside, I wouldn't dismiss this as a loophole case. The carjacking made this eligible for death regardless of the Navajo or the state it occurred in. By the logic of calling it a loophole execution, you could say a loophole was used to execute Honken. After all, Iowa does not permit the death penalty and they were perfectly equipped to handle the case. But the continuing criminal enterprise made his crime eligible for the death penalty. It's not terribly different from using a federal stipulation to execute Mitchell when circumstances normally wouldn't permit, just as it normally wouldn't be possible to execute an Iowa killer.
    Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next products.

    "They will hurt you. They will hurt your grandma, these people. The root cause of this is there's no discipline in the homes, they don't go to school, you know, they live off the government, no personal accountability, and they just beat people up for no reason, and it's disgusting." - Former Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters

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