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Thread: Unsub - new guy on the block

  1. #41
    Senior Member Member Unsub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heidi View Post
    I was right on with my classification. You have made it very clear that the murderer is the only person you care about, and the victims family is irrelevant.
    In a fair justice system the victims family shouldnt matter. You punish the crime regardless of the reaction of the victims to the crime. Emotional judgements are bad judgements. When the crime has been commited it is about the criminal. What crime did he commit? Are there any circumstances that make him less guilty for his actions? Out of those questions comes a fair judgement. Emotional judgements is the reason there was a racial factor in the way the death penalty was handed out. The victim mattered: if it was a white victim... kill him if it was a black victim... meh good riddance.
    It is good this isnt the case anymore (mostly).
    Part of the road to recovery for the victims is that the criminal is punished but they should have no say in how they are punished.
    Last edited by Unsub; 04-18-2012 at 01:10 PM.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Member RobertH's Avatar
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    Unsub, thanks for replying, I can appreciate your point of view, however, the challenge with psychology/sociology/psychiatry is while it considered a science, it is still very subjective, 5 different people can have 5 different viewpoints. Again, these people did not make a "mistake", they did this deliberately. I am not trying to change your mind, we are all entitled to our various views. I, for one re-examine my own stance on capital punishment every time I read about a particular case.

    In my humble opinion, prison is meant to be punishment, not rehabilitation. I see way too many people that use the " I came from a broken family" or similar back ground and try to use that as a mitigating factor. To many people refuse to take responsibility for their own actions in society today, not just here in the US but around the world. To put is simply, we are taught right from wrong at young age, it is just a matter of having the self discipline to do the right thing when the wrong thing presents itself...please be active on this site Unsub, I always appreciate good discussion.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Member Unsub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertH View Post
    Unsub, thanks for replying, I can appreciate your point of view, however, the challenge with psychology/sociology/psychiatry is while it considered a science, it is still very subjective, 5 different people can have 5 different viewpoints. Again, these people did not make a "mistake", they did this deliberately. I am not trying to change your mind, we are all entitled to our various views. I, for one re-examine my own stance on capital punishment every time I read about a particular case.

    In my humble opinion, prison is meant to be punishment, not rehabilitation. I see way too many people that use the " I came from a broken family" or similar back ground and try to use that as a mitigating factor. To many people refuse to take responsibility for their own actions in society today, not just here in the US but around the world. To put is simply, we are taught right from wrong at young age, it is just a matter of having the self discipline to do the right thing when the wrong thing presents itself...please be active on this site Unsub, I always appreciate good discussion.
    We can see eye to eye on many things i see. Of course punisment is also part of a prison sentence but again with an eye on the future. We want the prisoner to be usefull when he gets out. Not just a better criminal . Some background: I work in a mental institution and see a lot of people that just have had some terrible luck and made some horrible decisions at times. Mostly i see that they are not bad persons and most do change when offered the chance. I do see some truly evil people too so i wont deny they exist. And sadly you are right mistakes have been made here with prisoners that were released and that killed again. Of course this is terrible but given the choice i prefer our way.

  4. #44
    Administrator Heidi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unsub View Post
    In a fair justice system the victims family shouldnt matter. You punish the crime regardless of the reaction of the victims to the crime. Emotional judgements are bad judgements. When the crime has been commited it is about the criminal. What crime did he commit? Are there any circumstances that make him less guilty for his actions? Out of those questions comes a fair judgement. Emotional judgements is the reason there was a racial factor in the way the death penalty was handed out. The victim mattered: if it was a white victim... kill him if it was a black victim... meh good riddance.
    It is good this isnt the case anymore (mostly).
    Part of the road to recovery for the victims is that the criminal is punished but they should have no say in how they are punished.

    There are over 300 million people in the US. There are 1.5 million incarcerated. Of those ONLY 3,400 are on death row. Within that population resides serial killers, murderous pedophiles. These men are not there for trafficking drugs, or stealing chickens. They can not be rehabilitated to the point of joining the general population, much less rejoinig society.
    An uninformed opponent is a dangerous opponent.

    "Y'all be makin shit up" ~ Markeith Loyd

  5. #45
    Senior Member Member Unsub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heidi View Post
    There are over 300 million people in the US. There are 1.5 million incarcerated. Of those ONLY 3,400 are on death row. Within that population resides serial killers, murderous pedophiles. These men are not there for trafficking drugs, or stealing chickens. They can not be rehabilitated to the point of joining the general population, much less rejoinig society.
    For the most part you might be right, i dont know every case of every dr inmate. But still not ready to give up on all of them. An example given by RobertH earlier mentioned the case of Debra Milke, I am not 100% sure she is pure evil ( i admit this is not based on anything else then a gut reaction when reading the short facts of the case ). There could be a case of a delusion where she believed the child would be better of dead. If this was the case i think there could be hope for her. Of course there is also the chance she is a depraved psychopath who is faking it. Lets assume for arguments sake that she wasnt faking it, this delusion can most likely be cured. Is this still a dp case? If not and a doctor would declare her no danger to society could she ever rejoin?
    Last edited by Unsub; 04-18-2012 at 02:14 PM.

  6. #46
    Administrator Heidi's Avatar
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    I thought this should be posted again.


    RACE OF DEFENDANTS EXECUTED IN THE U.S. SINCE 1976





    RACE OF VICTIMS SINCE 1976





    CURRENT U.S. DEATH ROW POPULATION BY RACE

    An uninformed opponent is a dangerous opponent.

    "Y'all be makin shit up" ~ Markeith Loyd

  7. #47
    Senior Member Member Unsub's Avatar
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    Interesting graphs Heidi. Is the victims diagram the victims of only those executed or all murder victims? Do you know the source of these graphs would be interested in reading it. For the record i already admitted that i dont think race is as big as factor as it used to be. But i do think it was a huge factor in the past!

  8. #48
    Administrator Heidi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unsub View Post
    Interesting graphs Heidi. Is the victims diagram the victims of only those executed or all murder victims? Do you know the source of these graphs would be interested in reading it. For the record i already admitted that i dont think race is as big as factor as it used to be. But i do think it was a huge factor in the past!
    I made them up!

    Source: DPIC

    Those numbers are only for death row/executed offenders
    An uninformed opponent is a dangerous opponent.

    "Y'all be makin shit up" ~ Markeith Loyd

  9. #49
    Senior Member Member RobertH's Avatar
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    Unsub, We have been discussing the DP in the US. But no-one ever looks at other countries such as Iran, Iraq, or other middle eastern countries where you can be executed not only for murder, rape, drug trafficking, but also being homosexual or being a member of the opposing political party. Your viewpoints?

  10. #50
    Administrator Heidi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unsub View Post
    For the most part you might be right, i dont know every case of every dr inmate. But still not ready to give up on all of them. An example given by RobertH earlier mentioned the case of Debra Milke, I am not 100% sure she is pure evil ( i admit this is not based on anything else then a gut reaction when reading the short facts of the case ). There could be a case of a delusion where she believed the child would be better of dead. If this was the case i think there could be hope for her. Of course there is also the chance she is a depraved psychopath who is faking it. Lets assume for arguments sake that she wasnt faking it, this delusion can most likely be cured. Is this still a dp case? If not and a doctor would declare her no danger to society could she ever rejoin?
    Debra was the last one questioned. She sensed that detectives knew all and attempted to justify her involvement by revealing that she longed for the material possessions the $5,000 insurance payoff would allow her to purchase.


    Source: Debra Jean Milke - Arizona Death Row

    She murdered her own child for 5,000 bucks. Rehabilitate that!
    An uninformed opponent is a dangerous opponent.

    "Y'all be makin shit up" ~ Markeith Loyd

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