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Thread: Actual Innocence After Execution

  1. #31
    Senior Member Member Jeffects's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unsub View Post
    Do you think an innocent person has been executed in the US, post 1977.
    If there would be 100% certainty that an innocent has been executed, would that change your views in any way?
    See, I told you that you're annoying and only ask stupid questions to try and get attention. Try finding a girlfriend.

    Even He/She could only recount so-called innocent people executed, and they were all from Great Britain. No wonder they stopped executions, they were too incompetant.

    Can I vote again on the most annoying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unsub View Post
    For me the risk of executing an innocent is just to big of a burden. That person would have been killed in my name too, i could never live with that.
    Well, We've got an execution planned for June 5th. I can only see one way out for you, since they MAY be innocent. Keep you stupid self righteous, pretentious comments to yourself, or kill yourself so you don't have the heavy burden you're forced to bear because of our laws. Annoying squared!

  2. #32
    Administrator Heidi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffects View Post
    Well, We've got an execution planned for June 5th. I can only see one way out for you, since they MAY be innocent. Keep you stupid self righteous, pretentious comments to yourself, or kill yourself so you don't have the heavy burden you're forced to bear because of our laws. Annoying squared!
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    The views in the noted post are the views of the poster and in no way reflect the views of Crime and Capital Punishment forum! We do not promote suicide.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member Member Unsub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffects View Post
    See, I told you that you're annoying and only ask stupid questions to try and get attention. Try finding a girlfriend.

    Even He/She could only recount so-called innocent people executed, and they were all from Great Britain. No wonder they stopped executions, they were too incompetant.

    Can I vote again on the most annoying?
    Well, We've got an execution planned for June 5th. I can only see one way out for you, since they MAY be innocent. Keep you stupid self righteous, pretentious comments to yourself, or kill yourself so you don't have the heavy burden you're forced to bear because of our laws. Annoying squared!
    I would like to set the record straight here. I am a happily married man and the father of a 9 year old son. I am proud to say that he already displays more maturity in his communication than you do, he has learned to accept people with different views than his own.
    I will admit that the difference is mostly about what the best soccerclub in Holland is, but still he manages to engage in a civilized and mature debate. ( Everyone knows that its not Feyenoord like he thinks, but he puts up a good argument ).

    Secondly at no point did i claim an innocent was executed in the United States. My question was a so called "hypothetical question", it is a big word i know and you clearly didnt get what that means but dont worry ill talk you through it. Hypothetical is derived from "Hypothesis" yes i know another big one but bear with me. Hypothesis means "Something taken to be true for the purpose of argument or investigation". So you see it is like make believe, you pretend something is true but you dont know for reals if it is.
    Why you ask, why would you do something that silly it could only be attention seeking. Well in truth i dont hate it when people discuss something i suggested so in part you have a point. But i work in the mental health business, i am fascinated by why and how people believe and express their believe in moral issues like religion, abortion, the right to die movement, gay marriage and also capital punisment.
    Although i am clearly anti capital punishment i dont think i made a single post where i made a judgement against anyone for believing in capital punishment.

    Thirdly: I make annoying little posts. Well this is true but here is an annoying long one . I admit this is a weak spot, i just cant help commenting when i see something that tickles me in some way. I will try to better myself.

    PS: Competent, really unfortunate to make a typo there
    Love your enemies...they hate it

  4. #34
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    Executions & the false innocence claims

    Quote Originally Posted by couldheshebeinnocent? View Post
    'SNIP

    Cameron Todd Willingham,Unsub? He has in my opinion the strongest innocence case of all the Texas death row inmates that were ever executed, SNIP

    The USA in all likelihood has, but will never admit it any time soon and has allowed states to procedurally deny posthumous forensic testing (e.g. in the case of Joseph O'Dell of Virginia).
    Please fact check, next time. Neither Willingham nor O'Del belong on the innocent executed list.

    False innocence claims are a foundation of the anti death penalty movement.

    Please review all:

    "The Innocent Executed: Deception & Death Penalty Opponents"
    http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/10...ts--draft.aspx

    5) The 130 (now 140) death row "innocents" scam
    http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/03...h-penalty.aspx

    6) "Exoneration Inflation: Justice Scalia’s Concurrence in Kansas v. March", by Ward Campbell, Supervising Deputy Attorney General, California Department of Justice, p 49, The Journal of the Institute for the Advancement of Criminal Justice, Issue 2, Summer 2008
    http://www.cjlf.org/files/CampbellEx...lation2008.pdf

    7) "The innocence tactic: Unreliable studies and disinformation", reports By United States Congress, Senate, 107th Congress, 2d Session, Calender no 731, Report 107-315. The Innocence Protection Act of 2002, (iv) The innocence tactic: Unreliable studies and disinformation, p 65-69
    http://alturl.com/6j7oc

    8) "The Innocent and the Shammed", Joshua Marquis, Published in New York Times, 1/26/2006
    http://coastda.blogspot.com/2006/01/...-nyt-oped.html

    9) "Troy Davis & The Innocent Frauds of the anti death penalty lobby",
    http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2011/1...s-of-anti.html

    10) "The Myth Of Innocence"*, Joshua Marquis, pu*blished in the Journal of Criminal Law & Criminolog*y - 3/31/2005, Northweste*rn University School of Law, Chicago, Illinois
    http://coastda.blogspot.com/2005/03/...innocence.html

    11) Sister Helen Prejean & the death penalty: A Critical Review"
    http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/05...al-review.aspx

    12) "At the Death House Door" Can Rev. Carroll Pickett be trusted?"
    http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/01...y-welcome.aspx

    13) "Cameron Todd Willingham: Another Media Meltdown", A Collection of Articles
    http://homicidesurvivors.com/categor...illingham.aspx
    Last edited by dudleysharp; 07-20-2012 at 08:53 AM.

  5. #35
    Administrator Heidi's Avatar
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    Thank you for posting the links Mr. Sharp.
    An uninformed opponent is a dangerous opponent.

    "Y'all be makin shit up" ~ Markeith Loyd

  6. #36
    Junior Member Stranger Blue Umbrella's Avatar
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    I love a good debate!

    In regards to Cameron Todd Willingham, this seems to be the case most often cited by anti-dp advocates as one in which an innocent person might have been executed. Some of the evidence they use for their arguments is, I admit, compelling. I suppose we'll never know the truth.

    However, this is what we DO know: CTW escaped his burning house with superficial and minor injuries while his three little girls were burned alive inside the house. Witnesses saw him frantically trying to move his CAR away from the house, and stated he never once attempted to go in after his children.

    Call me an animal, but I don't care if he started the fire or not. He deserved the needle that the state of Texas stuck into his arm. Innocent? Not hardly...
    Last edited by Blue Umbrella; 07-23-2012 at 03:46 AM.
    “Realists do not fear the results of their study.” -Fyodor Dostoevsky

  7. #37
    Member Member VladVoivode's Avatar
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    Yes we have executed innocent people. I base this on statistics. When one looks at the number of DNA exonerations one needs to bear in mind that at one time not so long ago such forensic testing simply was not available. To state then that no innocent persons were executed PRIOR to DNA and other bleeding edge forensic techologies available now would simply be an indefensible position as it would presuppose that existing methods prior to these advanced technologies were infallible. In addition, one would have to argue the infallibility of the justice system itself. No human institution is infallible and thus the postion is indefensible.

    Both Australia and Taiwan have admitted to executing innocent people by the way. Australia of course no longer employs capital punishment, but their legal system is every bit as "modern" for lack of a better term as that found in the United States and Canada for instance. [N.B. the Taiwan wrongful execution took place in 2010 or 2011. I will get the exact date for reference].

    As to the Willingham case, the problem as I see it is that the courts and Perry refused to look at the new forensic evidence WHILE Willingham was still alive. While Mr. Sharp has made his case on a number of fora, the fact still remains that this evidence legally should have been reviewed as it could have proven actual innocence. Mr. Sharp, I respect your writing and have followed your thoughts for a number of years so please understand that I am in no way attacking you. That said, in the Willingham case, we can never know for certain either way whether Willingham was actually guilty or actually innocent.

    I hasten to add that I also find it curious that on the eve of the committee's findings appointed to investigate the new forensic evidence in the Willingham case, Gov. Perry replaced three members of the committe - including the head of the committe -with three appointees of his own.

    Bottom line: if we are to continue to exercise the ultimate sanction, then we must be certain beyong ALL doubt that the person we are about to execute is guilty. Perry never offered a compelling reason for this literally 11th hour replacement. Surely as Governor he would have been kept in the loop as to the progress of the investigation; the execution of an inmate is a responsibility that no governor should take lightly. So I am concerned as to why Governor Perry would make this change. The committe worked on this case for two years if memory serves and Perry's response AFTER replacing members was unsatisfactory even to many like myself who are pro-DP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Umbrella View Post
    I love a good debate!

    In regards to Cameron Todd Willingham, this seems to be the case most often cited by anti-dp advocates as one in which an innocent person might have been executed. Some of the evidence they use for their arguments is, I admit, compelling. I suppose we'll never know the truth.

    However, this is what we DO know: CTW escaped his burning house with superficial and minor injuries while his three little girls were burned alive inside the house. Witnesses saw him frantically trying to move his CAR away from the house, and stated he never once attempted to go in after his children.

    Call me an animal, but I don't care if he started the fire or not. He deserved the needle that the state of Texas stuck into his arm. Innocent? Not hardly...
    Hi Blue Umbrella,

    I am not calling you an animal. Ad hominem arguments are puerile, sophomoric, and beneath all of us. However, your post is contradictory. You state "I suppose we will never know the truth" yet you still believe Willingham deserved to die. Let me make this clear, crystal clear: I am pro-DP. That being said, the DP is about impartial justice. Impartial justice means weighing the facts, not "what ifs." On both sides of the issue we are left with conjecture as there are admittedly many factors thart coiuld explain why Willingham escaped only with minor injuries - including the possible fact that he did actually murder his children. But you state that you admit that some of the arguments are compelling. I agree and in fact I would add that the arguments in the Willingham case are far more compelling than the Troy Davis case.

    Best,
    Vlad

  8. #38
    time2prtee
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    Willingham is NOT innocent. When you make moving your car a priority over pulling your kids out of a burning house....

    Whether he lit the fire or not...GUILTY. I believe that there are issues around the interpretation of the arson evidence, but I have not read that a re-do of the evidence exonerates him...Trust me it would be all over the media if it did...

  9. #39
    Kansasredneck
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    I am pro DP. Its hard to not be a Biblical Christian and not support the punishment GOD intended for those who ademantly refuse to follow his laws.
    People can go on and on about christianity and the death penalty, but the fact is GOD kills, and he is just. When a tiny child dies for unexplicable reasons, the reason is known to GOD. We are not fit to judge him.
    My point, and the reason I joined this group is that I do not believe the government would execute an innocent person. If a person were innocent, they would have been framed by either a group of conspirators who were likely guilty of the crime, or by a dirty cop. Yes, we have those. My years in law enforcement convince me there are some bad apples out there. In that case, it would be murder, not by the government, but by the dirty cop or false witness who chose to use the state rather then a weapon to commit his crime.
    We need the death penalty in this country to be swift and sure. A simple improvement would be to administer a lie detector test to all witnesses whom the defense would choose to contest. That should happen immediately after testimony, and the result be made available for the jury. Likewise with defense witnesses.
    We also need to make execution a stepped process. Convicts who choose to not contest their sentence would be eligible for immediate execution by lethal injection.
    After one week it should be unavailable and the only available means should be electrocution, and long drop hanging. After one year, lift method hanging where the executed dies by means of strangulation without benefit of a broken neck to render unconsciousness should be the means of execution.
    I would include firing squads, or the gas chamber as alternate methods for states to use at the one year mark, or if a state approves it and a condemned subject choose it as their means of departure to justice.
    I do not support life sentences. This renders the convicted a mere caged animal. The max sentence in terms of time should be twenty years. If we cannot adequately punish some one in that length of time we should execute them.

  10. #40
    Member Member VladVoivode's Avatar
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    A polite question for discussion, please accept it in that spirit?

    I am curious as to why you favor more severe methods of execution as time goes on in your model? I base my question on the New Testament, specifically: St. Matthew 5:7

    And yes I AM pro-DP but I am adamantly anti-cruelty. Justice should be in the business of upholding the law; it should not stoop to the level of cruelty that the lawless exercise.

    I should add for your consideration that I am also a Christian, though of a different denomination. The denomination is not germane to the question however. I mention my Christianity so that you know that a fellow Christian is asking this question out of a sense of curiousity rather than a mechanism for argument.

    Best,
    Vlad
    Last edited by VladVoivode; 11-27-2012 at 02:04 PM.

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