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Thread: Faith positions regarding the Death Penalty

  1. #11
    Administrator Heidi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moh View Post
    What is the death-penalty stance of the Shintoists, Zoroastrians, Bahá'ís, Caodaists, Wiccans and Wiggers?

    Wiggerism..that's fresh!
    An uninformed opponent is a dangerous opponent.

    "Y'all be makin shit up" ~ Markeith Loyd

  2. #12
    Banned TheKindExecutioner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moh View Post
    What is the death-penalty stance of the Shintoists, Zoroastrians, Bahá'ís, Caodaists, Wiccans and Wiggers?
    LMAO! Interesting that there's such a wide range among Christians!

    How about atheists/agnostics?

  3. #13
    Dommo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moh View Post
    What is the death-penalty stance of the Shintoists, Zoroastrians, Bahá'ís, Caodaists, Wiccans and Wiggers?
    What is a wigger!

  4. #14
    Administrator Moh's Avatar
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    They wear wigs, vote for the defunct Whig Party and, occasionally, wig out.

  5. #15
    Member Member VladVoivode's Avatar
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    Baha'i Faith: "As to the question regarding the soul of a murderer, and what his punishment would be, the answer given was that the murderer must expiate his crime: that is, if they put the murderer to death, his death is his atonement for his crime, and following the death, God in His justice will impose no second penalty upon him, for divine justice would not allow this."

    `Abdu'l-Bahá, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 179

    According to my research Moh, the death penalty was prescribed for the crimes of murder and arson.

    --

    Shinto according to the Ontario based Religious Tolerance does not possess as much of a fully formulated theology as many other religions do. Much of Shinto's social views are based in Confucianism. While the following statement should NOT be misconstrued as an official position, I fvelt that it was at least a way to address to Moh's question: "All of humanity is regarded as "Kami's child." Thus all human life and human nature is sacred." http://www.religioustolerance.org/shinto.htm

    --

    Wicca is rather controversial even among those who call themselves Wiccans. Despite the internal differences - or squabbles (take your pick) - Wiccans are considered Neo-Pagans. Polls conducted by Religious Tolerance reveal that among Neo-Pagans, there are anti and pro views on the death penalty.

    --

    Zoroastrianism prescribes the death penalty for homosexuality: Elsewhere in Zoroastrian tradition permission is given for the killing of a homosexual man caught in the act (Commentary on Fargard VIII, Vm74). Note here that a legal permission need not be given for killing a homosexual. As a side note, Zoroastrians have been persecuted quite mercilessily in Iran - a country which also prescibes the death penalty for homosexuality.

    --

    Not sure if you know this or not Moh, but "wigger" is a perjorative term used in America against certain white males. Here is the Urban Dictionary definition: "A male caucasion, usually born and raised in the suburbs that displays a strong desire to emulate African American Hip Hop culture and style through "Bling" fashion and generally accepted "thug life" guiding principles.

    Often characterized by his car, or "whip": usually an econobox modified with at least twice the car's book value in non-power producing modifications or an SUV with at least 5500 lbs. of curb weight. Traditional trucks can also qualify here, depending on locale (southern states' percentages are higher). All vehicles are also mandated to have at least 19" chrome alloy wheels, regardless of make. The typical wigger is also characterized by a strong desire to adorn gold jewelry (especially heavy gold chains) and athletic warm up suits. All equipment and clothing will be paid for by the parents of the individual in question, or the parents of said individual's "shorty" through the use of said shorty's credit cards.

    A general disposition of "hard" will be displayed among other wiggers and to kids around their neighbohood (usually labelled a 'subdivision' or 'gated community' due to its mass produced housing develoment origins). This disposition will immediately be dropped and replaced by a more typical white boy" disposition when in the presence of actual African Americans ( with exceptions: Those whose origins trace to the suburbs being the most prominant.).
    Wigger: "Yo kid, you best be watchin' ya step!"

    Typical Suburban White Girl: "Didn't you get that Do-rag at Hot topic?"

    Wigger: "Yeah, well.. you know how we do!"

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...r&defid=439600

  6. #16
    Member Member VladVoivode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKindExecutioner View Post
    LMAO! Interesting that there's such a wide range among Christians!

    How about atheists/agnostics?
    It is interesting indeed but not surprising if you look deeper into Christianity. I will keep this as brief as possible as this is not a Christianity forum:

    Christianity is essentially divided into three distinct branches - not to be confused with "denominations." They are: Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Protestantism. Anglicans present a thorny problem die to the Oxford Movement in the 1890s in England which saw a shift back toward Catholicism. This movement was spearheaded by John Henry Neumann who later coverted to Roman Catholicism, became a cardinal and was later canonized as a saint. In addition, while non-denominationals are considered Protestants by scholars of religion because of there adherence to sola scriptura, many non-denominationals vehemently resent any notion of being included under the rubric of "Protestant."

    Further muddying the waters, each branch contains varying entities. Under Rome's jurisdiction for instance, there are approximately 27 different "groups" of Catholics. In America, the two most familiar are Roman (Latin Rite) Catholics, and Byzantine Rite Catholics who are under the jurisdiction of the Patriarch of Rome (The Pope) but retain Eastern Orthodox mysticism and liturgical practices and allow their priests to marry.

    The Eastern Orthodox Christian Church recognizes Coptic Christians as essentially Orthodox. The only thing separating them is a question over a possible misinterpretation of monophysitism, that is, whether Christ was fully God with human qualities, or both fully God and fully human which is the prevailing teaching of Christianity.

    Finally, there are more Protestants in America than Catholics, and among Protestants there are more than 20,000 distinct denominations. The variance in opinion about the death penalty and indeed other social issues along the spectrum of Protestantism has to do with how sola scriptura is applied. The concept is a Latin word meaning "Scripture only." So if you look at my initial post you will see that Southern Baptists are pro death penalty while the American Baptist Church is abolitionist. The same holds true for Evangelical Lutherans who are anti and Lutheran-Missouri Synod are pro. The general tendency among Protestant Christianity as it regards social issues reveals whether the Old or New Testament is cited as regards any given social issue. Anti death penalty churches cite many passages in the New Testament but perhaps chief among them is John 8:3-11 in which Christ halts the execution of a woman:

    3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

    4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

    5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

    6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

    7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

    8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

    9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

    10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

    11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. (KJV)

    The Old Testament contains the lex talionis which is commonly known as "an eye for an eye." (Ex. 21:23, 24; Lev. 24:19, 20; and Deut. 19:21). Rabbinical scholars however have argued that the lex talionis has been misunderstood. Further complicating the issue are Christ's words in Matthew 5: 38-42

    Matthew 5:38-42
    New International Version (NIV)
    Eye for Eye

    38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. (NIV)

    So after reading all of this it should be obvious that Christianity as a whole cannot have an official stance because as noted by many of you, there is a wide divergence. This post here is meant as a way to explain why the divergence of opinions and stances exist.

    I hope this helps or at leasts makes for some helpful reading.

    Best,
    Vlad
    Last edited by VladVoivode; 11-19-2012 at 07:27 PM.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Frequent Poster elsie's Avatar
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    Very true that both Old and New Testament can be used for each opinion. Since the woman was caught in adultery not murder, I consider that just that as a pro DP. We definatley all agree on how precious life is and that taking it away deserves punishment. Life for a Life. Enjoyed reading your posts. A lot of people choose to combine Old and New Testament as a whole. It is all God's word and any mistakes are definately mans in the translation.
    Last edited by elsie; 11-19-2012 at 09:16 PM. Reason: left out

  8. #18
    Administrator Moh's Avatar
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    Vlad, thanks very much for the detailed answers to my questions!

  9. #19
    Member Member VladVoivode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elsie View Post
    Very true that both Old and New Testament can be used for each opinion. Since the woman was caught in adultery not murder, I consider that just that as a pro DP. We definatley all agree on how precious life is and that taking it away deserves punishment. Life for a Life. Enjoyed reading your posts. A lot of people choose to combine Old and New Testament as a whole. It is all God's word and any mistakes are definately mans in the translation.
    Hi Elsie,

    You make a strong point about translation! This is why seminarians in The Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches learn to read the Scriptures in their original languages, namely Hebrew and Ancient Greek. The Orthodox and Catholics draw from the The Speptuagint for instance. The bibles of these churches contain more books than Protestant bibles. In 325 AD, the final book was added to the collection of books now colllectively known The Bible. This book is called Revelations and in earlier times called The Apocalypse of St. John of Patmos. The book was very controversial for reasons I need not go into here, but the book was added with the condition that this book would never be used in formal worship and indeed to this day, The Book of Revelations is never used in Orthodox Divine Liturgy or Roman Catholic masses. St. Jerome did the first translation of The Bible into a (then) modern language, Latin. It is considered the most accurate translation. In the 17th century, King James wanted an English translation of the Bible that was error free. What is interesting is that the King James Version is no more accurate than the Latin Vulgate. As all of you know, many words do not transliterate accurately from one language to another, hence the translational errors.

    What does this have to do with the death penalty? Everything actually. Specifically the wording of the Fifth Commandment "Thou shalt not kill." Scholars for centuries have been debating whether "kill" means ending of life or is it confined to the concept of murder. Pro death penalty folks citing this Commandment will cite it as justification for the DP. Anti DP will cite it as meaning all killing is forbidden, including judicial executions.

    In a sense, religious discourse about the DP presents a challenging problem for all people of faith because all the positions are based upon interpretation of the Bible AND differing church teachings. To get a fuller sense of the picture, you could get a Southern Baptist minister and a United Methodist Methodist minister in the same room and ask them why they hold their respective and opposing positions on the DP. Because Protestant Christianity cites the Bible ONLY as sole authority, each of these ministers will cite the Bible to support their positions. Now the thought exercise comes into play in the sense that each cites Divine inspiration of The Holy Spirit for their understanding of the Bible. Obviously God does not lie so between these two ministers, who is right? Now what I mean by a thought exercise is this: imagine for a moment that you personally have no opinion yet on the DP and you are looking at a transcript of the discussion between two ordained ministers of Protestant denominations. You are a person of faith in that you believe in the inerrancy of God. Furthermore, you cannot allow emotion to enter your decision; you can only weigh the facts. The thought exercise is to determine who is right. You will find that given the parameters of the exercise that no conclusion can be reached hence the widely divergent position of various Christian churches - especially among Protestants. The Roman Catholic church on the other hand has been exploring the notion of evolving standards. While the Roman Catholic Cathechism prescribes the DP for the gravest of cases, Pope John Paul II has pushed for the abolition of the DP in countries where modern penology methods can guarantee that those who take life can be safely isolated from society such that they are no longer a threat TO society. In addition, John Paul II has argued in Evangelium Vitae that repentance is impossible when capital punishment exists. (Note: Evangelium Vitae is a Papal Encyclical. It is essentially a "letter" that is a non-binding statement as opposed to a Papal Bull which is a binding doctrinal statement). The older Eastern Orthodox Church has always been officially abolitionist. Their existence in the West was virtually unknown until some decades after the death of the founder of Protestant Christianity, Martin Luther.

    So my friends, it is a slippery slope when religion comes into play yet faith is part of who we are. We are the only species on the planet to have these things called theologies - and yes, atheism and agnosticism are also theologies!

    Thank you everyone for your kind words concerning my endeavor to provide some information about faith positions as they have and will continue to play an important role in the discourse about the DP.

    Best,
    Vlad

  10. #20
    Member Member VladVoivode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moh View Post
    Vlad, thanks very much for the detailed answers to my questions!
    Moh,

    Prego!!

    Con molto rispetto,
    Vlad

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