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Thread: Guns

  1. #361
    Member Member Gooch33's Avatar
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    With all due respect....france has 1/5 the population of the US. Therefore it can be expected that incidents will be much higher due to such an imbalance of population. As is there far more violent incidents in India and China (the only other nations with more people than the US), it's just not as widely reported, if at all in a still rather tight media in China. Those nations have loads of violent crime. I'm not excusing it, but when you have more people in close proximities, such as urban populations, violent crime is higher. It has absolutely nothing to do with guns, knives, or whatever...and everything to do with the person holding it. This isn't a gun issue, it's a socio-economic issue for the most part. Crimes happen more often in lower income areas. I have no fear walking around in the US, even in some of the worst of areas. These tv shows you watch are badly slanted, and seem more propaganda to an agenda than showing the truth. Prisons EVERYWHERE are rather violent and brutal. Plain and simple, it's happening everywhere. I could go on and on about this but I won't. It is what it is...an extremely violent world.

  2. #362
    Senior Member CnCP Addict Richard86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    I strongly disagree! I doubt that it´s a good idea that drugged and drunken people use guns in a dark, loud and crowded area. I don´t want to offend someone, but without doubt the people who visit a metal concert are mostly not in a condition to deal with a gun.
    I dunno. I'd hope that someone who'd carry a gun routinely would be the sort of person who wouldn't get drunk or drugged while carrying it. Sort of like I don't take my car with me if I know I'm going drinking.

    I don't know if that's how it works in real life, but any discussion on whether they'd have stopped the Bataclan massacre is conjecture.

    Also as far as I know guns aren't exactly uncommon in France. Not as common as in the US, but certainly they're more common than in Britain, where police having guns is controversial.

    Do French police advise fighting an active shooter? British police don't: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35140754

  3. #363
    Administrator Helen's Avatar
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    So far this year, American toddlers have shot at least 23 people — and 11 have died

    By Christopher Ingraham
    The Washington Post

    This past week, a Milwaukee toddler fatally shot his mother after finding a handgun in the back seat of the car they were riding in. The case drew a lot of national attention given the unusual circumstances: Little kids rarely kill people, intentionally or not.

    But this type of thing happens more often than you might think. Since April 20, there have been at least seven instances in which a one- , two- or three-year-old shot themselves or somebody else in the United States:

    On April 20, a two-year-old boy in Indiana found the gun his mother left in her purse on the kitchen counter and fatally shot himself.

    The next day in Kansas City, Mo., a one-year-old girl evidently shot and killed herself with her father’s gun while he was sleeping.

    On April 22, a three-year-old in Natchitoches, La., fatally shot himself after getting hold of a gun.

    On April 26, a three-year-old boy in Dallas, Ga., fatally shot himself in the chest with a gun he found at home.

    On April 27, the Milwaukee toddler fatally shot his mother in the car.

    That same day, a three-year-old boy in Grout Township, Mich., shot himself in the arm with a gun he found at home. He is expected to survive.

    On April 29, a three-year-old girl shot herself in the arm after grabbing a gun in a parked car in Augusta, Ga. She is also expected to survive.

    Last year, a Washington Post analysis
    found that toddlers were finding guns and shooting people at a rate of about one a week. This year, that pace has accelerated. There have been at least 23 toddler-involved shootings since Jan. 1, compared with 18 over the same period last year.

    In the vast majority of cases, the children accidentally shoot themselves. That’s happened 18 times this year, and in nine of those cases the children died of their wounds.

    Toddlers have shot other people five times this year. Two of those cases were fatal: this week’s incident in Milwaukee, and that of a three-year-old Alabama boy who fatally shot his nine-year-old brother in February.

    These numbers represent only a small fraction of gun violence involving children. For instance, the pro-gun-control group Everytown for Gun Safety has found at least 77 instances this year in which a child younger than 18 has accidentally shot someone.

    And there is a whole different universe of gun violence in which toddlers are shot, intentionally or not, by adults.

    Looking at where toddlers are pulling the trigger, some states stand out sharply.

    Georgia is home to the highest number of toddler shootings, with at least eight incidents since January 2015. Texas and Missouri are tied for second place with seven shootings each, while Florida and Michigan are tied for fourth, with six shootings apiece.

    You might think that toddler shootings are simply a function of population — the more people who live in an area, the more toddlers are likely to shoot someone. But that doesn’t appear to be wholly the case. California and New York are two high-population states that have seen only three toddler shootings between them since 2015.

    And Illinois, home to infamously high rates of gun violence in Chicago, has not seen a single toddler shooting since 2015.

    This suggests that other factors may be at play in the states that see disproportionately high numbers of shootings by toddlers. Missouri and Georgia, for instance, have fairly lax laws regulating how guns are stored to prevent child access. On the other hand, New York has no such child access laws in place, yet only one toddler has shot someone there since 2015.

    Perhaps other factors are at play as well. There could be cultural factors — norms surrounding gun use and ownership, for instance — that may make these shootings more likely in some areas than in others.

    Sussing out cause and effect in these cases, in other words, is still largely a guessing game. And it’s a game made much more difficult by Congress’ efforts to restrict the type of gun research that agencies such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are allowed to conduct.

    Until 2004, for instance, the CDC routinely asked Americans about whether they stored guns at home, and whether they made a habit of locking them up. That’s no longer the case.

    http://news.nationalpost.com/news/wo...iew_id=1089236
    "I realize this may sound harsh, but as a father and former lawman, I really don't care if it's by lethal injection, by the electric chair, firing squad, hanging, the guillotine or being fed to the lions."
    - Oklahoma Rep. Mike Christian

    "There are some people who just do not deserve to live,"
    - Rev. Richard Hawke

    “There are lots of extremely smug and self-satisfied people in what would be deemed lower down in society, who also deserve to be pulled up. In a proper free society, you should be allowed to make jokes about absolutely anything.”
    - Rowan Atkinson

  4. #364
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Mike's Avatar
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    9th Circuit Court of Appeals Says No Right to Concealed Gun Carry

    A divided federal appeals court in California ruled Thursday that there is no constitutional right to carry a concealed handgun, adding to a division among the lower courts on gun rights outside the home.

    By a vote of 7-4, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco upheld a California law that requires gun owners to show a good reason before they can get a license to carry a concealed handgun.

    "The protection of the Second Amendment — whatever the scope of that protection may be — simply does not extend to the carrying of concealed firearms in public by members of the general public."

    The court declined to say whether the Constitution protects openly carrying a gun in public. It said that question was not at issue in the case.

    Gun owners in two California counties challenged the requirement that they show "good cause," as defined by county sheriffs, before they could get concealed carry permits.

    Thursday's majority opinion traced the rights of gun owners from medieval England to the founding of the United States and through the Civil War, finding that local laws almost universally prohibited carrying concealed firearms in public.

    In 1897, well after the adoption of the Second Amendment, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that "the right of the people to bear arms is not infringed by laws prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons."

    The appeals court said it followed the U.S. Supreme Court's method of looking to history to resolve gun rights issues.

    "Because the Second Amendment does not protect in any degree the right to carry concealed firearms in public, any prohibition or restriction a state may choose to impose on concealed carry — including the requirement of 'good cause,' however defined — is necessary allowed by the Amendment," the 9th Circuit said.

    Many states have similar restrictions on concealed carry, and the lower courts are divided on whether they violate the Second Amendment. So far, however, the Supreme Court has declined to take up the issue in the wake of its landmark 2008 ruling that found a right to own a gun at home for self-defense.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...-carry-n589041
    "There is a point in the history of a society when it becomes so pathologically soft and tender that among other things it sides even with those who harm it, criminals, and does this quite seriously and honestly. Punishing somehow seems unfair to it, and it is certain that imagining ‘punishment’ and ‘being supposed to punish’ hurts it, arouses fear in it." Friedrich Nietzsche

  5. #365
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Mike's Avatar
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    Last edited by Mike; 07-14-2020 at 04:14 PM.
    "There is a point in the history of a society when it becomes so pathologically soft and tender that among other things it sides even with those who harm it, criminals, and does this quite seriously and honestly. Punishing somehow seems unfair to it, and it is certain that imagining ‘punishment’ and ‘being supposed to punish’ hurts it, arouses fear in it." Friedrich Nietzsche

  6. #366
    Senior Member CnCP Legend Mike's Avatar
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    Ammon Bundy, 6 others acquitted in Oregon standoff trial

    Seven people who were among the armed occupiers of a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon earlier this year were acquitted Thursday of charges related to the 41-day standoff.

    Ammon Bundy; his brother, Ryan Bundy; and three other people were found not guilty of firearms charges and conspiracy to impede federal workers. Two others who were acquitted were charged only with conspiracy. The federal jury couldn't reach a verdict on a theft charge against Ryan Bundy.

    There was a bit of drama in the courtroom after the decision, CNN affiliate KOIN reported. Ammon Bundy's attorney, Marcus Mumford, was taken down by US Marshals who reportedly used a stun gun after the lawyer argued with the judge that his client should be set free. Mumford spent a brief time in custody, KOIN reported.

    The Bundy brothers and their father, Cliven Bundy, still face federal charges in Nevada for a standoff at the Bundy ranch in 2014.

    One of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge defendants, Neil Wampler, told reporters: "We came to Oregon ... seeking justice, and we found it today."

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/27/us/ore...tal/index.html
    "There is a point in the history of a society when it becomes so pathologically soft and tender that among other things it sides even with those who harm it, criminals, and does this quite seriously and honestly. Punishing somehow seems unfair to it, and it is certain that imagining ‘punishment’ and ‘being supposed to punish’ hurts it, arouses fear in it." Friedrich Nietzsche

  7. #367
    Administrator Helen's Avatar
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    How Republicans Have Been Making Gun Laws Worse Under Trump

    By Margaret Hartmann
    New York Magazine

    A short time after 17 people were killed in a shooting at a Parkland, Florida, high school on Wednesday, Florida senator Marco Rubio said he hoped the people already talking about gun control would “reserve judgment.”

    The Florida massacre was the 18th school shooting in 2018, and at least the 273rd school shooting since 20 first-graders and six adults were slaughtered in Newtown, Connecticut. After that tragedy, Rubio tweeted that he was praying for Newtown, and there would be “plenty of time for policy debate later.”

    Like many of his GOP colleagues, Rubio has repeatedly tweeted that his thoughts are with the latest mass-shooting victims, yet somehow it’s never the right time to dig in on the underlying causes. In the past year Democrats have introduced more than 30 pieces of legislation aimed at combatting gun violence, and only four have had GOP sponsors, according to the Washington Post.

    That isn’t to say that Republicans have been inactive on gun-related issues. Since President Trump took office, he and other Republicans have launched several efforts to loosen gun-control laws. There are also a handful of GOP lawmakers who expressed interest in fixing the gaps in existing laws that appeared to play a role in recent mass shootings — yet so far, nothing has come of those efforts. Here’s what Washington has been up to.

    Trump Blocked a Rule That Made It Harder for the Mentally Ill to Obtain Guns

    In December 2016, the Obama administration finalized a rule that would have added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and deemed unfit to handle their own finances to the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). The rule was written in response to the massacre in Newtown and the Obama administration predicted it would have added 75,000 people to the national database.

    Both the NRA and the ACLU said the law violated the Second Amendment rights of the mentally ill without due process, and Congress quickly voted to overturn the rule, mostly on party lines. President Trump signed the measure into law in February 2017, with no public signing ceremony. Since then Trump has continued to say mass shootings are a “mental-health problem,” not a gun problem.

    Trump Made It Easier for “Fugitives” to Buy Guns

    The 1993 Brady Act, which mandated federal background checks on gun purchases, says that gun dealers can’t complete the sale if the prospective buyer is a “fugitive from justice.” Since 1998, the background-check system issued 180,000 denials for that reason. For years the FBI argued that this restriction applied to anyone with an outstanding arrest warrant, while the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives said it only applies to people with outstanding warrants who have fled across state lines to avoid prosecution.

    In February 2017, Trump’s Justice Department sided with the ATF and purged about 500,000 people previously labeled “fugitives” from the system. In October, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported that there had already been an 80 percent decline in the number of gun sales denied to “fugitives,” compared to the previous year:

    Nationwide, there were 1,581 gun sales or carry permits sought by fugitives that were declined between March and August in 2016; 18 percent of all denials. This year, there were 321 denials based on entries in the “fugitive from justice” category in NICS, or 4 percent of all denials nationwide.

    GOP Moved to Loosen Gun Restrictions on Federal Lands

    Carrying loaded firearms on the roughly 12 million acres of federal lands controlled by the Army Corps of Engineers has been banned since the 1970s, with the exception of areas that allow hunting and target shooting. In March the Corps gave notice in a lawsuit over this policy that it is “reconsidering the firearms policy challenged in this case, as well as plaintiffs’ requests for permission to carry firearms on Army Corps property.” The House GOP also tucked a rider that would change the policy into an energy-appropriations bill.

    On March 2, his first day in office, Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke revoked a ban on using lead ammunition on wildlife refuges. The Obama administration had implemented the ban two months earlier to prevent plants and animals from being poisoned by lead left on the ground or in their water supply.

    Republicans Advanced a Bill to Make It Easier to Buy Gun Silencers

    A bill that would loosen restrictions on buying gun silencers, known as the Sportsmen’s Heritage and Recreational Enhancement Act, was originally set to get a hearing on June 14, 2017, but it had to be delayed when a gunman opened fire that morning on members of Congress practicing for a charity baseball game, seriously injuring Majority Whip Steve Scalise and wounding four others. It was marked up by a House committee in late September, but the vote was delayed again after 59 people were fatally shot during a concert in Las Vegas on October 1.

    A day later, Politico reported that the vote wasn’t anticipated “anytime soon” — but it’s expected to pass eventually. The bill would also make it more difficult for the ATF to classify ammunition as “armor piercing,” and ease restrictions on the interstate transportation of weapons.

    Congress Discussed Banning Bump Stocks, Has Yet to Pass Anything

    After a “bump stock,” which makes a legal semiautomatic firearm function like an illegal automatic weapon, was used in the Las Vegas shooting, Democratic senator Dianne Feinstein introduced a bill that would ban the devices.

    Even a handful of Republicans said they wanted to look into outlawing bump stocks, including Senators Ron Johnson, Lindsey Graham, and John Cornyn. However, many GOP lawmakers backed off after the NRA said their legality should be addressed by the ATF.

    In early December, the Senate Judiciary Committee held a hearing on the matter and the ATF initiated a new review of bump stocks. The ATF already told Congress in 2010 and 2013 that it doesn’t have the authority to regulate the devices, and the agency’s acting director warned that they might conclude again that they need guidance from Congress. “It’s hard to believe this is anything other than another way for Republicans to stall congressional action,” Feinstein said.

    Rather than waiting for Congress, at least 15 states and other municipalities began considering their own bump-stock restrictions. New Jersey and Masschusetts have already enacted new laws banning bump stocks (which were illegal in New York and California prior to the Las Vegas shooting).

    Paul Ryan Ignored Calls to Form a Select Committee on Gun Violence

    In the wake of the Las Vegas shooting, Democratic House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi called on Speaker Paul Ryan to create a Select Committee on Gun Violence that would “study and report back common sense legislation” to stop mass shootings. She also asked him to take up a bipartisan bill that would establish mandatory background checks. Ryan did not respond. Two days after 26 people were killed in a Texas church shooting on November 5, Democrats tried to force a vote to establish a gun-violence select committee, but their effort drew no Republican support.

    House Passed Bill Allowing Concealed Carry Across State Lines

    The gunman in the Texas church massacre was kicked out of the military for domestic assault, which should have prevented him from purchasing a semiautomatic rifle. But the Air Force later admitted that it failed to submit his records to the federal database.

    In response, Senators Chris Murphy, a Democrat, and John Cornyn, a Republican, introduced the Fix NICS Act, which aims to improve the reporting of criminal records and domestic-violence data to the FBI. It seemed like the rare piece of gun legislation that could make it out of both chambers of Congress.

    Then it was tacked on to the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act, which would allow people granted a concealed-carry license in their state to conceal a weapon anywhere in the country, overruling other states’ gun laws. That top

    NRA legislative priority passed by a vote of 231-198 in December, mostly on partisan lines.

    The combined bill is likely DOA in the Senate, where it would need the support of nine Democrats. Murphy and Cornyn are calling for the two bills to be considered separately, but it’s unclear when the bills might get a vote.

    Trump Proposed Cutting Millions of Dollars From the Background-Check System

    Trump’s fiscal year 2019 budget, which he rolled out two days before the Florida shooting, calls for reducing funding to the National Criminal Records History Improvement Program and the NICS Act Record Improvement Program, which give states federal grants to improve reporting to the national background-check database. Trump proposed cutting their funding from the current $73 million to $61 million, a 16 percent reduction.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...der-trump.html
    "I realize this may sound harsh, but as a father and former lawman, I really don't care if it's by lethal injection, by the electric chair, firing squad, hanging, the guillotine or being fed to the lions."
    - Oklahoma Rep. Mike Christian

    "There are some people who just do not deserve to live,"
    - Rev. Richard Hawke

    “There are lots of extremely smug and self-satisfied people in what would be deemed lower down in society, who also deserve to be pulled up. In a proper free society, you should be allowed to make jokes about absolutely anything.”
    - Rowan Atkinson

  8. #368
    Administrator Helen's Avatar
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    Editorial:

    America's cult of guns

    By Jay Parini
    CNN

    Guns are a religion now. And too many of our fellow citizens -- including evangelical Christians, of all people -- will continue to heedlessly worship at this altar, despite the dead children, the dead teachers, the dead concert goers and the innocent bystanders who must sacrifice their lives for others' overriding faith in their weapons.

    They will, unless you do something.

    They are in something like a cult, and like all cults, difficult to break from, to stop or influence. It's an American thing, religious — yes -- in scope, fundamentalist in its fanaticism and fervor, without precise parallel anywhere else in the world.

    As a Christian, I'm appalled by the hypocrisy I see among others of my faith, particularly those who are our leaders in government and show eagerness to participate in this cult. They worship false idols in the form of weapons, and turn their back on the teachings of Jesus, who did not equivocate when it came to violence.

    The Sermon on the Mount is unmatched as a spiritual and ethical guide, as when Jesus declared: "You have learned that they were told, 'Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.' But what I tell you is this: Do not set yourself against the man who wrongs you. If someone slaps you on the right cheek, turn and offer him your left." (Matthew 5:38-40)

    It is safe to say that nobody in the cult of guns listens to Jesus.

    We're reminded of the evil at the heart of this every month or so, when some demented individual gathers a cache of semiautomatic firearms — or even, as in the case of the Parkland, Florida, school shooting Wednesday, just one powerful assault rifle -- and goes on a rampage.

    Parkland will before long drop down the long list of recent school shootings. There is every reason to believe it will be second or third behind some new tragedy, just another name on a long list: Columbine, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech and so forth. Added to these we have the rampages in Las Vegas, Orlando, and countless other places.

    None of this will stop unless the cult of guns is curbed.

    This won't be easy; the cult has a lot of money behind it. The money pours in from the "devout": small-time contributions to the NRA that amount to hundreds of millions of dollars each year. This money is used, in our skewed version of democracy, to influence politicians, who are only too happy to be bought.

    Our Congress is swamped with men and women, our so-called representatives, who do not represent the majority view, which is that guns must be curtailed.

    According to the most recent Gallup Poll, about 60% of American are either "very dissatisfied" or "somewhat dissatisfied" with our guns laws and want change. This number had fallen for a few years, it's climbing back up again. More of our neighbors and friends want nothing to do with the cult.

    Given this, and in the face of the horrors we see in our news feeds, why is the ability to buy and possess guns so rabidly protected by our leaders and so many of our fellow Americans?

    There is, of course, a false answer: We must protect the Second Amendment. Anyone who has actually read this astonishingly brief and enigmatic constitutional amendment knows what baloney will be found on that plate. Here it is; please read it.

    I don't care what you think about "well-regulated militias," we don't need anyone to have automatic or semiautomatic weapons in their possession, not unless they are soldiers or police officers.

    Rifles for hunting are one thing, handguns and repeating weapons -- such as the AR-15 used in Parkland, Sandy Hook and Las Vegas -- meant to destroy large numbers of people very quickly are another. They are weapons of mass destruction, for sale to any nut with a credit card.

    But statistics -- eight deadly school shootings in the first seven weeks of this year -- will not be enough to move anybody in this cult. And it's no matter that we have the perfectly good example of Australia, where for over 20 years we've watched the rapid decline in gun deaths. This is due to new, strict laws put into place after a mass shooting in Tasmania that left 35 people dead. The government bought back or confiscated over a million firearms, and there has been no mass shooting in Australia since.

    It works, friends. You can get rid of handguns and semiautomatic weapons, and people will stop dying on the same massive scale. It's simple math.

    But cults are not subject to reason. They have their fiery preachers, their arcane lore, their faith in Fox News hosts who peddle phony stories, their "churches" -- gun shows -- and deeply ingrained mythologies. These are all supported strongly by the NRA and the weapons manufacturers.

    Hollywood doesn't help, and never has: The American taste for violence is notorious, and we spread this ghastly predisposition around the world.

    Donald Trump got elected, in part, because he kowtowed to this cult of guns, pretending to be a lover of weapons, even a member, although this was a veneer. Has he uttered a single word about gun control since the shooting in Parkland? Will he? I think you know the answer, and where his bread is buttered.

    What would help? You. Elections. Sensible laws.

    But this is going to require mental and spiritual toughness, a genuine resolve to end the killing and persuade those trapped in the cult of guns that it's in everyone's best interest for them to step out of that darkness.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/opini...ini/index.html
    "I realize this may sound harsh, but as a father and former lawman, I really don't care if it's by lethal injection, by the electric chair, firing squad, hanging, the guillotine or being fed to the lions."
    - Oklahoma Rep. Mike Christian

    "There are some people who just do not deserve to live,"
    - Rev. Richard Hawke

    “There are lots of extremely smug and self-satisfied people in what would be deemed lower down in society, who also deserve to be pulled up. In a proper free society, you should be allowed to make jokes about absolutely anything.”
    - Rowan Atkinson

  9. #369
    Senior Member CnCP Legend CharlesMartel's Avatar
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    We can't denied the gun problem, but what law to have more then wich the one we have already .
    In the Shadow of Your Wings
    1 A Prayer of David. Hear a just cause, O Lord; attend to my cry! Give ear to my prayer from lips free of deceit!

  10. #370
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    "None of this will stop unless the cult of guns is curbed." LMAO!!!!

    Hey Panini......how about the real 'cults' that blow up buildings, crowded streets and schools?

    Or rental trucks that plow through people just out for the day.

    You got bigger fish to fry than attacking law abiding citizens whom own weapons and have NEVER, EVER, used them violently.

    You want this to stop in schools? How about we focus on the bullies that drive kids to not only kill others, but kill themselves instead.

    Yep. It's the guns alright.....................
    “Ninety-nine percent have made peace with their God. Their victims didn’t have that choice.”

    “You're not entitled to a pain-free execution.”

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